Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister

User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Latest: smitty3855
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 12622

People Online:
Members: 1
Visitors: 339
BOT: 2
Total: 342
Who Is Where:
01: English Mike > Reloading Database
01: Your Account
02: News
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Your Account
07: Forums
08: Your Account
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Your Account
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Your Account
30: Forums
31: Photo Albums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Your Account
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Photo Albums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Your Account
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Your Account
49: Your Account
50: Forums
51: Your Account
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Photo Albums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Photo Albums
69: Forums
70: Home
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Your Account
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Photo Albums
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Photo Albums
87: Photo Albums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Photo Albums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Photo Albums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Your Account
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Your Account
119: Your Account
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Your Account
125: Forums
126: Your Account
127: Photo Albums
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Your Account
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Home
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Your Account
140: Forums
141: Your Account
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Home
148: Forums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Forums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Forums
162: Your Account
163: Forums
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Your Account
168: Your Account
169: Forums
170: Home
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Forums
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Forums
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Photo Albums
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Forums
187: Your Account
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Your Account
191: Forums
192: Forums
193: Forums
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Your Account
197: Forums
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Your Account
201: Forums
202: Forums
203: Forums
204: Forums
205: Your Account
206: Forums
207: Forums
208: Home
209: Your Account
210: Forums
211: Forums
212: Your Account
213: Forums
214: Your Account
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Forums
218: Photo Albums
219: Forums
220: Photo Albums
221: Your Account
222: Forums
223: Forums
224: Forums
225: Forums
226: Your Account
227: Forums
228: Photo Albums
229: Your Account
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Home
234: Forums
235: Forums
236: Forums
237: Forums
238: Forums
239: Forums
240: Photo Albums
241: Photo Albums
242: Forums
243: Forums
244: Home
245: Forums
246: Your Account
247: Your Account
248: Forums
249: Your Account
250: Forums
251: Your Account
252: Forums
253: Forums
254: Forums
255: Photo Albums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Forums
259: Your Account
260: Forums
261: Forums
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Forums
267: Forums
268: Your Account
269: Forums
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Forums
273: Forums
274: Forums
275: Forums
276: Forums
277: Your Account
278: Forums
279: Forums
280: Your Account
281: Forums
282: Your Account
283: Forums
284: Forums
285: Forums
286: Your Account
287: Your Account
288: Forums
289: Forums
290: Your Account
291: Forums
292: Photo Albums
293: Forums
294: Forums
295: Forums
296: Forums
297: Forums
298: Your Account
299: Your Account
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: Forums
304: Forums
305: Forums
306: Forums
307: Forums
308: Forums
309: Your Account
310: Forums
311: Photo Albums
312: Forums
313: Forums
314: Forums
315: Your Account
316: Forums
317: Forums
318: Your Account
319: Forums
320: Forums
321: Your Account
322: Forums
323: Photo Albums
324: Forums
325: Forums
326: Forums
327: Forums
328: Forums
329: Your Account
330: Forums
331: Your Account
332: Your Account
333: Your Account
334: Forums
335: Forums
336: Photo Albums
337: Your Account
338: Forums
339: Forums
01: Forums
02: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 305
 Pictures: 2361
  · Views: 440583
  · Votes: 1310
  · Comments: 86

Support our Advertisers

Is controlled round feed overated ?
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Super Member
Super Member

Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 608
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:17 pm    Post subject: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

I have read dozens of articles extolling the virtues of the Mauser style controlled round feed actions, especially for dangerous game hunting. Many of them state that with CRF the rifle will even function upside down. So, I was rearranging my gun safe today and decided to do an experiment. I took my Rem 700 .35 Whelen, Ruger 77 .35 Whelen, Rem 700 .270, Rem model 7 .223, and Winchester 70 .30-06 out of the safe. All push feed actions except for the Winchester 70 which is supposed to be CRF (more on that later) . I then fully loaded the magazines, turned them upside down and worked the actions at different speeds from very slow to briskly until the magazines were empty. The results? All functioned flawlessly except the Winchester model 70. The Winchester would consistently jam the last rounds nose against the breech instead of entering the chamber. Another advantage claimed is that with CRF the bolt controls the round from the time it pushs it forwards from the magazine so if the shooter pulls the bolt rearward before going fully forward it wont double feed and cause a jam. I discovered that my Winchester model 70, touted to be a CRF, is a push feed gun when the round is coming from the left side of the staggered box magazine. The claw extractor only engages the cartridge right away when the cartridge is feeding from the right side of the magazine. So its only CRF half the time. I am not knocking the Winchester 70, I like them, and it might not be a fair comparison to only test one CRF rifle but thats the only one I own. Maybe with the Larger magnum calibers in the various Mauser actions there is an advantage. I dont feel the least bit hesitant though, even hunting dangerous game, with the Rem 700.
Back to top
View user's profile
Super Member
Super Member

Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

Remingtons have been used for DG hunting in Africa, Asia and Alaska with success. They are, however, more prone to problems in the field than the CRF models offered by CZ, Winchester and Mauser variants. One of the primary advantages of CRF is the size of the extractor and its ability to extract reliably under extremes of weather. Look at the extractor ring on the Remington. It is small in contact area and vulnerable to premature failure.

When guiding, I've had hunters double stroke Remingtons and loose shots on game. I've had two experiences with broken extractors. I've seen three Remington bolts freeze up after a hard rain and a cold night. Ice formed in the bolt and the firing pin couldn't move either forward or backward thus prohibiting it from cocking. With most CRFs, the take down of the bolt is fast and easy and that enables clearing the firing pin and spring of any debris or ice. It takes about one minute to do this.

While not disputing your issues with your particular M70, it is something I have never witnessed or experienced in decades of hunting with them.

Often Remingtons are modified with a Sako extractor to overcome their potential weakness and it is a good modification IMO.

CRF rfles or Sako style extractors dominate DG rifles in Alaska and Africa. If one contacts outfitters, they will often mention brands such as Kimber and Tikka for extreme weather hunting, along with M70s and Mauser variants. These recommendations are based on years of experience, although, not all outfitters support those recommendations nor is CRF needed in most hunting/varminting situations.
Back to top
View user's profile
Super Member
Super Member

Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

Well there is alot of things to consider between the action here is a small list of things I've gathered from a gun "expert" which forgot more about guns before his death then I know:

-> They can handle higher pressures then claw feed actions because they support the case better.
-> They are used in almost all semi-automatic rifle designs out there.
-> Accurizing a push feed is alot easyer then a claw feed which can be at times almost impossible. (High Power shooters may disagree).
-> The extractor doesn't fail enough to make it worth it for when they designed the M40 rifle that it was worth putting in a Sako style extractor.

Also about the Sako extractors:

Gale McMillian wrote:
When I designed the Marine M40A1 we considered replacing the extractor but when we researched extractor failure we found it so incidental it wasn't worth considering . The problem with installing the a M16 or Sako extractor is when you blow a primmer it turns to shrapnel

Because of not only Gale's logic on the rifles but just taking and applying in my head his reasoning I can see why he is right so because of that I sort of got sold on Push Feed actions.

Claw feed actions have a use, and they are good rifles don't get me wrong but I've never double stoked a rifle because I always pull the bolt till it "hits" then all the way forward agian so that benifit of them I've never seen in person. Smile


A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Super Member
Super Member

Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 10568
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

Aah...except in Combat...How often to you shoot dangerous game lying on your back and shooting upside down? Just curious here...

I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile

Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 208
Location: Franktown, CO

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

It depends on what you are hunting and how big a bite it has.

Coyote Hunter
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Arizona Hunter

Joined: Jul 22, 2006
Posts: 275

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

When I first looked at a big game rifle I was really into Finn Aagaard articles and since he was a Mauser type guy, I decided to get one, too and have always liked them very much and plan on using them for as long as I can- Love my Interarms Mark X and Swedish Mauser--but I also love my Howa push feed rifle, it sure is fun on prairie dogs and targets.

I guess if I was going on dangerous game hunt I'd feel more comfortable with a Mauser than a push feed type.
Back to top
View user's profile
Super Member
Super Member

Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 608
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

Ah, Finn Aagaard, I really miss his writing. I too thought a lot of his opinions, which is what turned me on to the .35 Whelen. I was all set to buy a new rifle on my 18th birthday in July of 1992 but was not sure what caliber to buy. I wanted a versatile caliber that I could hunt anything in North America with. In the June 1992 American Rifleman Magazine he wrote an article praising the .35 Whelen, its versatility and knockdown power. A month later I bought a Rem 700 .35 Whelen as a 18th birthday present to myself. Since then I have bought various other rifles but the Whelen is still my go to rifle on serious hunts. It always bothered me a little though that it wasnt CRF, but I never had a problem with any of my push feed rifles so I quit worrying about it.
Back to top
View user's profile
Arizona Hunter

Joined: Jul 22, 2006
Posts: 275

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

Roklok, sometimes when I think about getting a rifle with more frontal area that is still easy to shoot I always think of the 35 Whelen (and 338 win).

Would you feel comfortable using the 35 Whelen shooting something like an X bullet or A-Frame on big bears?

When Finn passed away I was truly heavy hearted, I felt like my mentor had died, he was and still is my favorite writer (although John Barness is exellent), I still pull out his book once in a while and re-read the articles on various calibers.
Back to top
View user's profile
Super Member
Super Member

Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 608
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Is controlled round feed overated ? Reply with quote

I would not hesitate to use the Whelen on the big bears, in fact I hope to this fall. My handloads with 250 grain Nosler Partitions are clocking right at 2550 FPS out of a 22" barrel, only about a hundred FPS less than Rem lists the .338 Win Mag with a 250 gr out of a 24" barrel. Finn used his Whelen (built on a Mauser of course) on a brown bear hunt using the 250 gr Nosler Partition. Finn also stated that the .35 Whelen is the ballistic match of the .350 Rigby Magnum (225gr at 2625 FPS) that gained a great reputation in Africa on dangerous game. Although I have seen brown bears I have never been up close and personal with one yet, I imagine in that situation any rifle might seem a bit small, but I have no doubt that the Whelen can handle it. I am thinking about buying a box of the Swift A-Frame 280 grain and working up a load, From what I read I should get about 2400 FPS with the 280s.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.