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GUTS Member
Joined: Nov 01, 2007 Posts: 85 Location: South Dakota
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5001 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:19 am Post subject: Re: 6.5 Jap, what is it now? |
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Wow! Glad it didn't blow and hurt you! What diameter is the case mouth opened up to? Are you sure that wasn't a 7.7x58mm rifle?
_________________ Mike
"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle
Last edited by Pumpkinslinger on Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15704 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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SwampFox Super Member
Joined: Jul 15, 2005 Posts: 1040 Location: Destin, Florida
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:36 am Post subject: Re: 6.5 Jap, what is it now? |
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Guts,
Many Japanese rifles were converted in the US after being brought home by GIs when WWII was over. The Ariaka action is extrodinarily strong, if the gun was made prior to or in the early years of the war. All 38s are early guns as the Japanese changed to the type 99 just prior to the war. The stories of Ackley trying to blow Arasaka actions are legend. Example, a 6.5 type 38 chambered to 7.7 and fired with the original barrel, without ill effect.
The 38 type guns are 6.5x51 many were converted to 6.5 x 257 which appears to be what you have. Note that the chamber is now different but the 6.5 barrel is original. You have a close enough cast of the chamber in the fired case. Check these deminsions for the 257.
Base (bottom of rim) to base of neck aprox 1.912
Base to bottom of shoulder 1.728
Top of rim to base of neck 1.864
Bulge diameter above web slightly smaller than .472
Exterior neck diameter .288 (sized diameter w bullet so will be larger in fired case)
Base of shoulder diameter .430
The number will not be exact but should be close.
If you reload you could make your own die set up by anealing a 257 Roberts sizing die and then cutting the shoulder off with a mill. This die would be used to rersize the base of the brass as needed after fire forming. With a 6.5 Arisaka die set you could back the sizing die out and resize the neck for neck sizing. You would also use this die to expand the neck of the 257 to 6.5. Then use the seater to seat the bullets. One thing of importance is that the angle of the shoulder is 20 VS 20.45, about the same, so unless the .013 shoulder diameter difference proves to be a problem you should be able to neck size the brass. Fire forming will be a snap, as you have already seen.
You might also be able to find a 6.5x257 die set.
Best,
Ed
_________________ The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
-Winston Churchill |
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SwampFox Super Member
Joined: Jul 15, 2005 Posts: 1040 Location: Destin, Florida
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:06 am Post subject: Re: 6.5 Jap, what is it now? |
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Guts,
My old brain is just a tad slow. But, it usually gets there given enough time. The 257 Roberts is basicly a 257 x 7x57. So if you neck up the 257 to 6.5 you will have something very, very close to a 6.5x57 with a slight shoulder angle change from about 17 degrees to 20 degrees, but the rest of the deminsions should be OK to load the round with the 6.5x57 dies. Look here:
chasse-tir.ifrance.com...uilles.htm
www.grafs.com/metallic/1975
Have a nice turkey day.
Best,
Ed
_________________ The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
-Winston Churchill |
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5001 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:09 am Post subject: Re: 6.5 Jap, what is it now? |
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I'm just looking at the case mouth of the fired case. It appears to be larger than 6.5mm.
_________________ Mike
"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle |
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SwampFox Super Member
Joined: Jul 15, 2005 Posts: 1040 Location: Destin, Florida
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:22 am Post subject: Re: 6.5 Jap, what is it now? |
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Mike,
The barrel on the gun in the photo is an original type 38 barrel. While it could be rebored, I doubt anyone would spend the time to rebore a Japanese barrel at the time the conversion was done or now, for sure.
I bought my first Arisaka for $5.00 probably about the time this conversion was done. Until recently the guns were not worth much.
Best,
Ed
_________________ The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
-Winston Churchill |
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POP!! Member
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 269 Location: Cheyenne, Wy
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:27 am Post subject: Re: 6.5 Jap, what is it now? |
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That is NOT chambered in 6.5x51R!
_________________ FOTIS |
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fnuser Super Member
Joined: Dec 23, 2008 Posts: 914 Location: S.W. Missouri, U.S.A.
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: 6.5 Jap, what is it now? |
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the conversion to 6.5.x57 is a common one and that would be the third one I know of the other 2 were seen in person. Run a slug down your bore and give us a groove to groove dia?
_________________ N.R.A. Endowment Member |
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GUTS Member
Joined: Nov 01, 2007 Posts: 85 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: 6.5 Jap, what is it now? |
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fnuser wrote: |
the conversion to 6.5.x57 is a common one and that would be the third one I know of the other 2 were seen in person. Run a slug down your bore and give us a groove to groove dia? |
The barrel is original so I guess it would be whatever the 6.5 Jap is. It's too bad that this rifle is altered, the bluing is almost perfect, the #'s match, and it has an untouched Mum.
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terry264 Member
Joined: Apr 02, 2005 Posts: 85 Location: Eastern-North Central West Virginia
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: 6.5 Jap, what is it now? |
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Hope that came thru, from ammoguide.com,,,,great site.
Last edited by terry264 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PaulS Super Member
Joined: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: 6.5 Jap, what is it now? |
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The barrel could be the same one but it may have been rebored to a larger size. Run a plug through it to be sure or have a smith look at it to be sure.
_________________ Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads |
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5001 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: 6.5 Jap, what is it now? |
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What does the "new" case mouth measure?
_________________ Mike
"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle |
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terry264 Member
Joined: Apr 02, 2005 Posts: 85 Location: Eastern-North Central West Virginia
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Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: 6.5 Jap, what is it now? |
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If the original barrel is indeed a 6.5 and in good shape, it also has 1:9 twist and would be an easy conversion to 260 rem. Just a thought.
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fnuser Super Member
Joined: Dec 23, 2008 Posts: 914 Location: S.W. Missouri, U.S.A.
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Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: 6.5 Jap, what is it now? |
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not any more the 6.5 x57 is a great cartridge but the shoulder is farther forward then the .260 his measured photos reveal this. I bet if he slugs it he'll find his groove dia is closer to .262" then .264". If he tried to .260 it without setting it back he'll have a severe case of excessive headspace. (pun intended)
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