HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 1
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 315
BOT: 1
Total: 316
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Your Account
04: Forums
05: Home
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Photo Albums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Photo Albums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Home
24: Your Account
25: Forums
26: Photo Albums
27: Home
28: Forums
29: Home
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Your Account
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Photo Albums
37: Photo Albums
38: Your Account
39: Home
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Home
43: Your Account
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Your Account
48: Your Account
49: Forums
50: Your Account
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Your Account
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Home
57: Forums
58: Photo Albums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Your Account
64: Home
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Your Account
68: Forums
69: Photo Albums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Your Account
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Photo Albums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Your Account
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Home
84: Your Account
85: Forums
86: Your Account
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Home
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Your Account
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Your Account
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Your Account
103: Home
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Forums
116: Home
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Your Account
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Your Account
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Photo Albums
139: Forums
140: Photo Albums
141: Forums
142: Your Account
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Home
146: Forums
147: Photo Albums
148: Forums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Photo Albums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Your Account
155: Forums
156: Home
157: Forums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Photo Albums
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Photo Albums
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Home
167: Forums
168: Photo Albums
169: Forums
170: Your Account
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Photo Albums
176: Forums
177: Your Account
178: Forums
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Your Account
182: Home
183: Forums
184: Forums
185: Home
186: Photo Albums
187: Forums
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Forums
191: Photo Albums
192: Photo Albums
193: Forums
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Photo Albums
197: Home
198: Your Account
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Your Account
202: Forums
203: Your Account
204: Forums
205: Home
206: Your Account
207: Forums
208: Photo Albums
209: Forums
210: Photo Albums
211: Forums
212: Home
213: Forums
214: Forums
215: Photo Albums
216: Forums
217: Photo Albums
218: Forums
219: Forums
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Forums
223: Forums
224: Forums
225: Your Account
226: Forums
227: Forums
228: Home
229: Forums
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Photo Albums
234: Home
235: Forums
236: Photo Albums
237: Forums
238: Photo Albums
239: Your Account
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Photo Albums
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Home
246: Forums
247: Forums
248: Your Account
249: Your Account
250: Forums
251: Forums
252: Your Account
253: Home
254: Forums
255: Home
256: Your Account
257: Your Account
258: Forums
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Forums
262: Your Account
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Photo Albums
266: Forums
267: Forums
268: Photo Albums
269: Photo Albums
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Forums
273: Forums
274: Forums
275: Home
276: Home
277: Forums
278: Home
279: Forums
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Forums
283: Forums
284: Forums
285: Home
286: Forums
287: Your Account
288: Your Account
289: Forums
290: Forums
291: Forums
292: Your Account
293: Forums
294: Photo Albums
295: Forums
296: Your Account
297: Forums
298: Home
299: Forums
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: Your Account
304: Forums
305: Home
306: Forums
307: Forums
308: Your Account
309: Forums
310: Forums
311: Your Account
312: Forums
313: Home
314: Forums
315: Photo Albums
  BOT:
01: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820723
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

Disapointed In Sierra ...
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:11 pm    Post subject: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

So since I've only bought and loaded Sierra's ammunition so far for my M1A, I decided to buy the manual. I have not been able to find it and last weekend Bass Pro had it for 45$ so I picked it up.

I have been told they had a equations of bullet flight section dealing with the math behind bullet flight (a section I was looking forward too as I've been told about it), but more interesting and kind of annoying is the loads in the books I got at home.

168gr Ammunition ... 308 Win .... Varget .... 2.800 OAL
Richard Lee .. 46gr ... 2731 fps ... Non-Compressed
Hodgdon ...... 46gr ... 2731 fps ... Compressed ... Win Case & Fed Primer
Sierra ..........43.5gr ... 2700 fps ... Non-Compressed ... Fed Primer & Case

Soooooo which Max load should I be following?

My rifle doesn't seem to mind the 43grs I loaded. But I am wondering about this.

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Crackshot
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Oct 23, 2005
Posts: 1693
Location: Mich

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

Are you loading the max load first?? Dimitri come now, you know better. right? Shocked

I hope so. At any rate, the place on the planet the folks work up their loads makes a difference, case volume per manufacture makes a difference,powder lots makes a difference. start at the minimum and work up ALWAYS. thats why we buy several manulas, because they are all gonna have a different result within a safe limit for the same components (sometimes). Thats why we start at the bottom and load UP from there.
I shoot NRA High Power, My Dad always used Winchester cases. He weighted them and measured internal volume with water and segregated them and used only the cases that were close to the same or THE SAME. I use Federal Match brass, Federal does all the work for you. Very Happy

_________________
The human mind is the weapon, the gun is just one of its tools.
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

I'm no where near max per the 2 sources at 43gr. It is 7% under max or so. But Sierra claims I am right next to max loadings.

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Crackshot
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Oct 23, 2005
Posts: 1693
Location: Mich

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

Watch your cases. They will tell you when your to hot. I alway use 41.5grains of IMR4064 in Federal match or WW cases under a 168gr Sierra Match King.
Also as you are aware Im sure the M1A is powder sensitive, so beware. IMR 4064 seems to be the perfect powder for the M1A and the M1G. IMHO.

_________________
The human mind is the weapon, the gun is just one of its tools.
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 6396
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

FWIW, this is my 2 cents as a wildcat user...

All maximum data published are RECOMMENDED figure.
They are written as high as the writer (or their lawyer) dare or feel reckless enough to.

YOU on the other hand, have to observe and load accordingly.
It is a function of your observative-ness (is there such a word?) and experience that counts when you are rolling your own.

Regardless of what a data book said, your rifle may just happened to have a tad of tightness (or looseness)in its barrel,
and there goes the THEORETICAL pressure figures.
Or any other small variations such as batches of gun powder or primer, weight of projectile,
the coefficient of friction or hardness of the jacket material etc.
can vary the pressure within the chamber greatly, and in some cases, cause catastrophic failure!!

YOU are NOT supposed to FOLLOW the max, you are supposed to use them as a guideline.

IF AND ONLY IF, as you creep to a (any) max figure, your cartridge brass and primer does not show any sign of over pressure,
you may increase (a little) the load and push the envelope, and go to a next max figure and so on.

Added to that, if you are loading to MAX or NEAR max figures,
you will need to start from beginning again whenever you are using new batches of powder, primers, cases, projectiles or new gun.
The little variation may just be enough to cause the gun to fail, and you are placing your limbs and head nearby when it does..

You are an engineer Mr. D. so approach the challenge in engineering way, divide and conquer..
After all guns are a logically predictable mechanical device, unlike the individuals who use them..

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:

Hodgdon ...... 46gr ... 2731 fps ... Compressed ... Win Case & Fed Primer
Sierra ..........43.5gr ... 2700 fps ... Non-Compressed ... Fed Primer & Case

I used Federal and Remington cases for my .308. I rely mostly on Hodgdon data when I reload. I found that I could not even load the max charge for Varget in Federal cases even when compressed. I could get more powder (1 to 1.5 grains more) in a Remington case. In my .270, the Winchester cases hold more than the Remington. I expect that would carry over for .308 cases. With less volume in a Federal case, I would expect pressures to be higher and it looks like the data you collected confirms that.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

+1 on the gelan post !!!

Remember this !!! You've answered your own question........ You knew it all along.......must of forgot with all that new knowledge your obtaining lately !!! Very Happy

So if Manufacturer "A" uses Winchester Brass they can put in more powder then Manufacturer "B" can that uses Remington Brass. Therefore what is "safe" in Manufacturer "A" opinion maynot completly apply according to Manufacturer "B".

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

Every Varget load online seems to be 43gr +, no matter what the case. Most loads hovering 44-44gr which seem to produce the best accuracy with the 168gr SMK.

Overall from when I was data mining for what to use, many seemed to load compressed loads which are safe per Hodgdon, varying load weights but still compressed loads.

2 reloading manuals list 46gr, one from the powder manufacturer, and one not. Sierra lists otherwise, my loads are well enough below max per the powder manufacturer. Its not like I started by loading compressed charges from the start. Laughing

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15701
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

'Mitri....I must, by the Rules of Commonsense, agree with everyone else mate.

However, I think that the Sierra figures are either a misprint (they appear to be for a faster powder and are identical to the next fastest ADI powder) or they are, as Gelan points out, covering their butts against litigation.

The manufacturer of Varget, or as we know it out here AR2208 list the following data:

Thales (ADI)

.........................................................................................Starting Loads.....................................Maximum Loads

Bullet Wt (grains).........Powder Type.................Powder Wt (Gr)....Velocity (fps).................Powder Wt (Gr)...................Velocity (fps)

168gr.............................AR2208 ((Varget))..........42.0gr.................2520 fps........................46.0gr C (Compressed)........2730 fps

As the others all stress mate, and yeah I know, I'm preaching to the converted, start low and work up watching for pressure signs.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:11 am    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

Good to know Vince.

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SingleShotLover
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 1005
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

Did Sierra list what they used for a test rifle? As a general rule "universal receivers" tend to produce higher velocities with less powder. Otherwise....well everyone else has already said it! Just be safe.

_________________
If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!

The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.

SSL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Pitt55
Member
Member


Joined: Aug 30, 2006
Posts: 104
Location: Prince George, B.C.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

I just bought the same manual and many loads were worked up using savage rifles with 26 in. barrels, including 308 win.

_________________
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken!
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
fnuser
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 914
Location: S.W. Missouri, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

I've never been disappointed in the accuracy of the loads Sierra publishes for their Bullets alot of other manuals won't even tell you which one worked the best under their circumstances. Their match load for Rl 15 in the 5th edition is still the one I use. It also uses a Savage rifle. Which edition was on sale?

_________________
N.R.A. Endowment Member
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5944

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

5th Edition was the one I picked up.

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Disapointed In Sierra ... Reply with quote

wtf I need to update.............Mines the 3rd edition !!!

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.