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Digital scales/Balances
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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SavageRuger
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales/Balances Reply with quote

I purchased an RCBS 750 digital and it is dead-on after calibration. I was using the Lee for quite some time and after I bought the digital I checked it against the Lee frequently during my loading sessions and it was on the money every time.

I load in my basement which is not heated until I'm ready to load. Although the temp rises several degrees while I'm reloading, it does not appear to affect the scale. I can only say this because I re-calibrated several times during sessions until I thought I could trust the scale.

Just my 2cents

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SHOOTER458
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales/Balances Reply with quote

I have used a Pact digital scale for years now, and I would sure hate to change back. Its quicker, more accurate and that tare button is worth its weight in gold when checking cast bullets.
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DallanC
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales/Balances Reply with quote

I used scales in college chemistry class that were so accurate it would measure a finger print! (ie: measure glass... take reading, put finger print on it... measure the increase in weight... LOL).

I've love a electronic scale, expecially one that works in conjunction with a powder measure but until I win the lotto I'll stick with my RCBS balance beam scale.


-DallanC
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SavageRuger
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales/Balances Reply with quote

Dallan, I agree with your assessment with the balance scale; it's hard to beat when it comes to accuracy, especially when one is measuring explosive material. Nonetheless, the accuracy of my 750 appears to be within .05g of my balance every time. Obviously this may differ with brand of scales and I am only comparing the Lee balance and the RCBS 750.

Just my thoughts

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twofifty
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital scales/Balances Reply with quote

"I used scales in college chemistry class that were so accurate it would measure a finger print! (ie: measure glass... take reading, put finger print on it... measure the increase in weight... LOL)." Dallan

That reminds of the time in grade school when the teacher said that the weight of a feather was enough to measurably deflect a steel tabletop.
She might have been stretching the point, but I think we caught on that everything weighs something. Gases too.

Speaking of weighing explosive powders, surely there is little point in being able to discern down to 1/100th of a grain....

I've never used a reloading specific beam scale, and was wondering how you guys dealt with parallax error? Do you put the scale up high at eye level, or do you crouch down to read the pointer? ouch.

Am considering a Hornady beam scale, their 500gr model, instead of going the electronic route...
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales/Balances Reply with quote

how accurate is accurate enough?
With my 30-'06 1 grain is 1.5 to 2% of total charge a tenth of a grain is close enough to be accurate. 0.1 grain more or les in my '06 isn't enough to see a perceptable change in velocity or trajectory. Yes, I have tried it.
In my 357 Maximum 1 grain is 5% of the load. 0.2 grains is 1% and there is a measurable change in velocity in + /-0.2 grains. There is a measurable change in 0.1 grain and the trajectory changes enough that it can affect placement on coyotes at 75 yards. Still, at 0 to 50 yards the difference is not that much. For my 25 ACP, 0.1 grain is 10% of the total load. If I was to try to get this round as accurate as my '06, I would have to ba able to load in increments of .002 grains. I have seen lab scales that accurate but they are kept under a glass cover in a clean room where the temperature, humidity and barometric pressure is controlled. I just don't feel like getting into my three layer clean suit and entering a tripple hatch door system to reload for a 25 ACP.
I can see it now you buy powder in large quantities and run them through a series of sievesto separate the flakes, kernals and balls into 4 separate sizes each run by a different electronic powder measure. The measures are connected to a Pentium 5, 12 gigahertz computer with 20gig of ram and a series of flash drives running transfer rates of 20 gig/second. Each load is carefully computed so that only whole particals of powder are used and to get to the last .001 grain the computer calculates how many of each of the four sizes it will need to make your load. Then we can have 1x1.5mm cartridges for our new revolvers. A new sport would spring up knocking over origamy targets not to exceed .1 grain in total weight from four feet.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales/Balances Reply with quote

Paul...Years ago when I started reloading I called RCBS to see if they would ever manufacture a scale that would be more accurate then the electronic that I had (+/-0.1). I had noticed that there were two readings for say 10 grains of powder...A light 10 grains and a heavy 10 grains. I litterly got laughed at and the guy hung up.... Sense then I have figured that +/- one tenth of a grain is more then accurate enough...I can, on occasion, be a stickler for detail...

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wy111
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales/Balances Reply with quote

Quote::
how accurate is accurate enough?
Pauls

Accuracy is the main problem, if you are working near max loads, 1%-2% can make a lot of difference between being ok or singeing your eyebrows, or worse. Like Bushy, I sometimes like to be a stickler for detail.
Dave
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales/Balances Reply with quote

I have been called anal retentive more than once when it comes to reloading. still, with small cases, one tenth of a grain is a ten percent variation. If your scale is +/- .1 grain then it is easily possible that your loads have a 20% variation. That is not accurate enough for even a casual loader. I know it is possible to have electronic scales that are more accurate than +/- .1 grain (the pharmacutical manufacturing industry uses them), it is extremely unlikely that reloaders will ever want to spend enough money to have them. For example the Acculab Vicon series Vic 123 is capable of .015 grain repearability and costs about $250. It can read in grains, grams, onces pounds and carats. It is calibrated with 10, 20 and 100 gram test weights which are included with the scale. Most reloaders are not interested in that kind of precision but if you work with extremely low capacity cartridges it might be important enough to have 1 and a half hundreths of a grain that $250 looks like a reasonable price. In addition to their accuracy these scales are computer compatible with serial and USB ports. TheVic 123 only takes up a spot on your bench that is 7" wide, 10 inches dep and on a shelf they stand less that 4 inches high with the hindged cover in place. The pan is four inches in diameter so it is more than large enough for loading even magnum cases though it has accuracy to weigh the smallest of charges. The capacity is 1800 grains +/- .015.
Nope I don't work for the company - just an anal retentive reloader.

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NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:58 am    Post subject: Re: Digital scales/Balances Reply with quote

I've been using a PACT digital scale with one of their electronic powder dispensers and it sure has sped up my loading process! When I first got the scale I compared it to my old RCBS beam scale and feel like it measures as well as I can. I use it to weigh and dispense all of the charges for my hunting and target loads.

I experimented some and found that the dispenser threw charges that could go as much as 0.2 grains under or, occassionally, 0.1 grains over the desired charge. With that in mind I have been setting the dispenser to throw 0.1 grain less than the load I want and then trickle the last bit in.

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