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social influencers effect on our sport
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:35 pm    Post subject: social influencers effect on our sport Reply with quote

Now I realize this is a huge can of worms,but due to recent happenings I have decided its time to put down my thoughts.
a few years ago while watching a duckshooting DVD it suddenly struck me how different what was being shown was to anything I had seen in person over 40 years of waterfowling...and I pondered why.
The biggest difference was the amount of shots fired per bird....3-4-5 shooters all with semi automatic guns all firing 4-5 shots EACH,to drop 3-4-5 birds
gangbanging its been called....
so who wins from this behaviour/way of doing it...simple the folks who make and sell ammunition..so how do they promote it??? they gift ammunition to folks who make videos etc and because its free..woohoo keep shooting.
vastly different to the folks who pay for their own ammunition out of the already tight family budget. not to mention the whole trailer load of decoys..then flocked decoys,then mechanical decoys,then electronic callers...it goes on and on...
I do know of a number of folks who have seen the light and gone back to using the old U/O or SxS and still bagging just as many birds.
I got a pump when steel first came out here as finishing off woundies was hard yakka...now its not so bad,with much fewer finishing shots needed.
right thats duckshooting.
troutfishing has always had a degree of snobbery.... discount or sponsered rods and line ..yip its there too
Back when semi automatic rifles were legal here I recall seeing magdumping used to cook bacon on a suppressor......again only fellas making or selling stuff benifit from that sort of tom foolery.
now in big game hunting the influence is more subtle but its still there,in order to show what I mean I will need to go back a little bit in history.
1940-1950 we had a huge number of deer,MOST people were using open sighted 303brits usually SMLE or a commercially suoped up one...or a post WW2 mauser that had also had a trip through gunsmith..or not.....
then we got better optics but for 20 years it was pretty much the same. the meat hunting days saw the introduction of some really neat cartridges and awesome rifles,lighter and more accurate.... the 4" at hundred that was normal.....changed to a lot of rifles now capable of 1" at hundred,handloading improved a huge amount and became more commonplace,rangefinders and dial up scopes changed the picture more again
fast forward to this century and we now have a huge selection of accurate rifles,a vast amount of great optics,huge pool of knowledge,thermal and night vision is now common place too in advertising,last 2 magazines have more adds for night vision/thermal than anything else....
so what does it have to do with influencers????
well just like duck shooting above..the folks making videos etc are using the stuff a lot..are being ifted or loaned it to try out/use and be seen to do so

what this leads to is a new to sport person THINKING this is how its done..this is normal... watching the Duleys put novice shooter behind rifle and cleanly snot bull thar/tahr at 3-4-500 yards with single round is a pretty thing BUT it doesnt tell half of,let alone the full story..... those rifles and loads have been worked on and worked out to the tenth degree and with known range and dialable optics its doable BUT when you stop and do an add up even roughly..the amount of $$$$$ tied up in gear is absolutely gobsmacking.
to give the Duleys credit less anyone think Im picking on them..which Im not (huge fan) they did a duckshooting episode a year or two back with one crew using old school gear Vs new gear on other crew...and young Willie has done a couple of retro hunts..sako vixen 222 and 4x scope on one and open sighted 303 on another couple.... just showing it can still be done on a budget..using older gear.
I would hazard a guess to say that 60-75% of all deer filmed being shot are now in excess of 300 yards ......slightly different to what I believe is the normal range an animal is taken this disconect works in favour of people selling new flash rifles/scopes/rangefinders/thermals/custom hot ammunition etc

to all you young fellas/new hunters out there..if you take nothing else from this rant,remember this YOU DONT NEED THE FLASHEST NEW EXPENSIVE GEAR to fill your freezer and enjoy your time in the out doors..recently did two polls..one shows that something like 75% of deer are shot under 300 yards and a similar % are shoulder/chest shot....... both of those figure would SUGGEST a rifle capable of 2"/50mm at hundred (yards or meters) will keep your freezer full...if animal is further away,just like Granddad did,you will have to stalk closer.
I sincerly hope this helps someone make up mind or be happy with 2nd hand gear

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:28 am    Post subject: Re: social influencers effect on our sport Reply with quote

Elvis, I do agree! I've also seen the change from the value of the groupe or company you're hunting with to the money involved and the amount of game shot for that money.
As for me: I cannot judge properly the shape and size of roedeer above 200 m and I've always liked to know what I'm shooting BEFORE I shoot. I'm rather sure I can hit roedeer at more than 200 m, but then I cannot see the shape of antlers of the bucks, nor can I see the difference between the doe and the doe-kitten of last year (being about 7-8 months old at the time hunting season is open for them.
When you go fishing you can release your catch when you want that, but when you're hunting with a gun or a rifle it's difficult to correct a fault you made. And often when the hunter sees the game, he/she might forget what his weapon can do and most of the time there is no way to correct a mistake.

And when you keep up your concentration it's always easier to make mistakes when the distance to the target increases...
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: social influencers effect on our sport Reply with quote

Made sense Elvis

Animals are not getting more bullet proof over the years either, unlike what the "general" consensus that recommend bigger caliber with each iteration said.

I usually do not shoot anything further than what a 22 LR can reasonably do either.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: social influencers effect on our sport Reply with quote

You are right about the “influencers” Elvis, but as you say it’s more about manufacturing companies and I would include the advertising companies pushing their ideas onto the manufacturers to hopefully expand sales, ie gangbanging videos.

Elvis makes mention of old school gear vs newer gear. As Gelan said…critters aren’t becoming anymore bullet proof…although bullet selection now can be problematic with the massive selection available tailored to calibre, velocity, range and purpose ie, serious target shooting, hunting or plinking. All one needs look at is the venerable 1894 30.30 WIN, or Bushy’s Jack handle in .30 WCF…still an extremely capable rifle and calibre for deer hunting. Then there’s the 30.06, and SMLE .303, used for bigger game such as elk…both calibres harkening back to the early 1900’s.

The wiz bang components, such as night vision, available now do make life easier in many respects for those that hunt at night where legal, but they certainly don’t make you a better hunter…they just make critters easier to see (but not necessarily identify precisely) at longer ranges. Those that embrace these “all singing, all dancing wiz bang” fancy components are slowly loosing the ability to old school hunt by stalking, thereby missing out on game, or even worse, only wounding game and not always being able to track them down.

As Aloys said, identifying game at distance becomes a problem as eyes age…unless you have high end binos, an even then it can be touch and go at 300m+. I personally will not take the shot at that range, or any range if I’m not 100% certain of the target…and equally as important, what’s behind it.

Like Gelan said…limiting hunting ranges (in his case too .22 Rimfire distance) is a smart move to augment a better chance of taking our chosen quarry with confidence.

Bells and whistles extolled by influencers and manufacturers won’t make you a better hunter, they can assist, but it’s old school training and experience that is the best teacher.

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Grey_Wolf
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: social influencers effect on our sport Reply with quote

I agree as well though I never bought in to the hype of semi autos, just don't care for them. My thoughts would be - if you need to gangbang shoot in order to get whatever critter you are targeting maybe you should spend more time at the range. I regularly shoot to 400 yards and have no issue taking game to that distance in fact a neighbour and I are planning on setting up a wolf bait and the stand will be close to 400 from the bait. I grew up with - make the first shot count the rest in the mag are there for safe storage. And that is the way I still look at it.
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: social influencers effect on our sport Reply with quote

Grey_Wolf wrote:
I agree as well though I never bought in to the hype of semi autos, just don't care for them. My thoughts would be - if you need to gangbang shoot in order to get whatever critter you are targeting maybe you should spend more time at the range. I regularly shoot to 400 yards and have no issue taking game to that distance in fact a neighbour and I are planning on setting up a wolf bait and the stand will be close to 400 from the bait. I grew up with - make the first shot count the rest in the mag are there for safe storage. And that is the way I still look at it.

I like it mate…I’ve never really looked at things that way. I’ve always considered the rounds left in the mag to be for a backup shot or for the next critter.

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Illegitimi non carborundum
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: social influencers effect on our sport Reply with quote

I bought a pump action .12ga in the 2nd season we had to use steel shot for waterfowl..in frustration of trying to finish off wounded ducks swimming out of range with dog heading out after them into big lake...at 1300 fps steel is pitiful,the instant speeds got above 1400fps our results improved...when it hit 1500fps life back to usual and average returned to 3 shots per bird averaged out over 3 days.... that hasnt changed from lead days,its what it is when on big water.
the last rifle to find its way into my cabinet (it followed me home dear,honest) is a single shot break open...and its taken a few deer for me LOL. all under 200 yards too.

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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: social influencers effect on our sport Reply with quote

Social Influences' have a big impact , I believe in using enough gun for certain , but they have to come up with new stuff to keep going .. I have an elephant rifle that I have tooken to Africa a couple times and its good for light 45-70 to more than you can stand .. But over here I'm with a guy some of you may remember who passed some years back , Bob Milek , a wordsmith , who believed in what he referred to as "efficient cartridges" , his favorite rifle caliber was 7x57 , no flies on it for certain ..

I will take a SxS twice barrel scatter gun for birds any day of the week .. Migratory birds in the US are very expensive to hunt anyways as far as time and gear ..

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: social influencers effect on our sport Reply with quote

Plaid shirts, buckskin jackets, muzzleloaders and black powder cartridges managed to render bison, deer, and turkey virtually extinct in North America by the early 20th century.

Even Mossy Oak's original "Bottomland" camouflage, from 1986, is likely pretty flashy new gear that is unnecessary. When you put it into some sort of historical perspective.

But what do I know, there is a new camouflage pattern better than the rest that comes out every year, so the magazines tell me.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: social influencers effect on our sport Reply with quote

Still using my Browning BSS 12 ga.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: social influencers effect on our sport Reply with quote

Like Bushy, I use my older shotguns for hunting…either my Lanber S x S with fixed chokes (half and full from memory), or my Fausti O/U, both in 12g. If I can’t do it in two shots, I don’t deserve to get it at all.

As an aside…I’m still looking for a rifled choke for my Fausti. They are the Traditional chokes with the thread on the chamber end of the choke (internal thread) and I believe that it apparently the same thread as American Arms. I’m going to email Carlsons to see what they say and if they are likely to have anything.

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