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gelandangan Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006 Posts: 6447 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:48 am Post subject: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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Prime a 4570 cartridge with Large Pistol Primer I meant.
I am given some 600 Large Pistol primers from a mate, and got no pistol that uses large primers.
I reckon 454 Casull is a pistol that have way higher pressure than 4570Govt, and it uses pistol primer..
So methinks, it should be ok on 4570 even though I will shoot it out of a rifle.
Am I committing something foolish?
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Vince Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15935 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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Hm...I remember asking a similar question a little while back...and the answer then was a definitive NO.
I reckon this will answer your question Gelan old mate.
huntingnut.com/index.p...pic&t=7589
Cheers, Vince
_________________ Cheers, Vince 
Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
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SingleShotLover Super Member


Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 1006 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:41 am Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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Just as a recap...pistol primers are generally considered to be softer than rifle primers. I wouldn't recommend using them interchangeably.
_________________ If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!
The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.
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chambered221 Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 3455 Location: Lost for good !!!
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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gelandangan wrote: |
I reckon 454 Casull is a pistol that have way higher pressure than 4570Govt, and it uses pistol primer.. |
The 454 uses a small rifle primer !!!
Primers are physically designed to withstand a given pressure range to prevent piercing.
The large pistol was designed to handle more than what the 45-70 will generate.
IMO your problem is gonna be ignition !!!
Most large pistol primer loads top out at about 30grs of powder, the 45-70 more than doubles that with some loads.
There is also a slight height difference that may be an issue !!!
_________________ Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!
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Aloysius Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009 Posts: 2465 Location: B., Belgium
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:58 am Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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why don't you try them in the 45-70 using blackpowder or Pyrodex and one of your famous lead bullets?
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RePete Super Member


Joined: Aug 15, 2005 Posts: 1048 Location: Gods Country
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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Not only softer and would not contain the pressure but less spark to ignite a stick powder.
Stick with rifle primers.
_________________ Proud member of the WTFDTSG Club.
Stercus Accidit = Sh*t Happens in Latin.
Nice try = You Suck spelled different.
My parents spanked me as a child. As a result, I now suffer from a psychological condition known as RESPECT FOR OTHERS. |
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Elvis Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9359 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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rifle primers are called rifle primers and are for rifles.
pistol primers are called pistol primers and are for pistols..
as has been said above they are built different for a reason and shouldnt be used otherwise.
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
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Aloysius Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009 Posts: 2465 Location: B., Belgium
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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That simple Elvis?
And now I'm looking at a box of Sellier & Bellot primers, named "4,4 SP BOXER"...
"for rifle, pistol or revolver cartridges"
maybe when you don't make Small Rifle primers, you're allowed to use the SP also as SR?

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44marty Super Member


Joined: Mar 20, 2009 Posts: 775 Location: Cheshire, MA; USA
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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Not worth the chance, Gelan. Pistol primers used in rifles are very likely to puncture through around the firing pin. The flash through can erode and damage the firing pin and bolt face.
I have a few samples of rifle cartridges with pistol primers where this has happened, as examples. Too bad my camera is temporarily out of service.
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gelandangan Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006 Posts: 6447 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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Ok, you guys answered the bulk of my q's.
So I won't do it.
OTOH, most of my loads are SUBSONIC thus are of very low pressure.
Software calculated pressure is less than 18 kpsi, which is well within the pressure range of a pistol.
And, the line between pistol and rifle are really blurred anyway..
Viz, 357Mag or 45LC in a revolver and the same in a lever action.
Or the newer rifles cal cartridges in "pistol" format, eg 4570 derriger.
Argh! I am confused.
_________________ A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
Do - Not try!
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stovepipe Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008 Posts: 4877 Location: Pine, Az.
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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44marty Super Member


Joined: Mar 20, 2009 Posts: 775 Location: Cheshire, MA; USA
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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gelandangan wrote: |
Ok, you guys answered the bulk of my q's.
So I won't do it.
OTOH, most of my loads are SUBSONIC thus are of very low pressure.
Software calculated pressure is less than 18 kpsi, which is well within the pressure range of a pistol.
Argh! I am confused. |
Even though you may be using low-pressure loads, most rifles' firing pins strike quite a bit harder than is safe for pistol primers. A pierced primer is dangerous and damaging to the firing pin, bolt face, and possibly the shooter.
Back when primers were in short supply here, many shooters found this out the hard way - myself included. DOH !!! Lesson learned.
_________________ _____________________________________
The strength of the wolf is in the pack; the strength of the pack is in the wolf. ~ R. Kipling
I LOVE YOU, LADY LUCK !!! |
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PaulS Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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The magnum pistols use magnum primers when the powder demands more briscence (sparky stuff) and there are between the regular pistol and rifle primers in cup strength too.
I wouldn't use a SR primer in a pistol without a note requiring it - like with my 357 Maximum. I have heard of guys doing it but then I also have seen blown up guns and over peak powder charges used by the same guys.
If you follow the specs in the manuals and use some (not so) common sense you and your gun will live together a long time.
_________________ Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
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Elvis Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9359 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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ok Aloy you have the exception to the rule(maybe  ) I had a .12ga with a pointy fireing pin that would pierce S&B loads cause they had copper primers, plurry good loads though.
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SingleShotLover Super Member


Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 1006 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. |
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gelandangan wrote: |
And, the line between pistol and rifle are really blurred anyway..
Viz, 357Mag or 45LC in a revolver and the same in a lever action.
Or the newer rifles cal cartridges in "pistol" format, eg 4570 derriger. |
You aren't the first to be confused. Note that "pistol" cartridges still use pistol primers even when used in a rifle. Conversely, rifle cartridges still use rifle primers and powders even when chambered in pistols.
The best example I can think of is back when Thompson Center first offered pistol barrels in .30-30 Winchester. It didn't take long for stories to appear about how inaccurate they were and speculation that the old .30-30 just wasn't a fit for pistols. Before long you could pick up .30-30 barrels for pennies on the dollar. Finally someone figured out that reloaders were using faster powders (and in many cases pistol primers) under the assumption that the shorter barrels needed help. Once the loads were brought back to standard loads, powders and primers for the .30-30 when chambered in rifles, accuracy improved and everyone was happy.
_________________ If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!
The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.
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