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The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
I think most WSM and WSSM chambered guns were sold to Fudds anyways, which means they are lucky to see a full box of ammo fired through them per decade.

Getting a little personal there are we? I'm about to buy a 1000 WSSM cases so I will be set for life. If your right, I'll only need a bag of 50. Not going to change my avatar though.

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

I said most, not all, and not people on here. Laughing

Every hunter I've met around here holding some sort of short magnum doesn't seem to shoot them much.

Dimitri

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RePete
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
I think most WSM and WSSM chambered guns were sold to Fudds anyways, which means they are lucky to see a full box of ammo fired through them per decade.

Dimitri

True, but who could afford the ammo anyway?

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

RePete wrote:
who could afford the ammo anyway?

I haven't noticed the cost being that much different.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

RePete wrote:


They are overbore which equals the barrels burn out faster, so you ain't going to shoot it often.

I don't know if I can agree with you on being overbore......WSSM in comparison to a standard cartridge actually use less powder to achieve similar velocity, and WSM in comparison to their magnum counterparts don't usually reach the same level of performance.

RePete wrote:


They don't do anything that standard calibers can't do.

I hear guys say this all the time but the reality is standard calibers can't do what short mags do !!!
WSSM's use less powder, use shorter actions that result in less weight.
WSM's approach magnum levels but are offered in a more convenient package for those that are concerned about weight.

RePete wrote:

And now brass is getting hard to find.

Every time someone has said this I've gone to midways web site and found brass readily available !!!

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
I said most, not all, and not people on here. Laughing

Every hunter I've met around here holding some sort of short magnum doesn't seem to shoot them much.

Dimitri

You can say that for about 90% of all hunters....don't have to be someone with a shorty !!!

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
RePete wrote:
who could afford the ammo anyway?

I haven't noticed the cost being that much different.

wtf Compare apples to apples and there isn't !!!

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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

chambered221 wrote:
You can say that for about 90% of all hunters....don't have to be someone with a shorty !!!

Yes but most of them that never shoot have all but abandoned the traditional calibers for the short ones cause its "cooler".

Dimitri

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RePete
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

chambered221 wrote:
RePete wrote:


They are overbore which equals the barrels burn out faster, so you ain't going to shoot it often.

I don't know if I can agree with you on being overbore......WSSM in comparison to a standard cartridge actually use less powder to achieve similar velocity, and WSM in comparison to their magnum counterparts don't usually reach the same level of performance.

RePete wrote:


They don't do anything that standard calibers can't do.

I hear guys say this all the time but the reality is standard calibers can't do what short mags do !!!
WSSM's use less powder, use shorter actions that result in less weight.
WSM's approach magnum levels but are offered in a more convenient package for those that are concerned about weight.

RePete wrote:

And now brass is getting hard to find.

Every time someone has said this I've gone to midways web site and found brass readily available !!!

Yaeh it is overbore. I forget what the ratio of the caliber to case diameter ratio is but it is overbore.

Midway doesn't ship to us.

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English Mike
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
chambered221 wrote:
You can say that for about 90% of all hunters....don't have to be someone with a shorty !!!

Yes but most of them that never shoot have all but abandoned the traditional calibers for the short ones cause its "cooler".

Dimitri

I chose the 300WSM for elk because it works & has greater potential than the 30-06.
Plus brass for belted magnums is scary 'spensive.
Working up a load took maybe 150 rounds & after that all that is needed is maybe 20 rounds/year for checking the sights are on & a little practice.
All my other recreational shooting is done using different firearms that are MUCH cheaper to feed.
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RePete
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:22 pm    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

Look here for overbore.

www.accurateshooter.co...y-formula/

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

Wow, my .270 Win is overbored!?! I think its a great cartridge and have been accurate for me. I didn't think it was a barrel burner.

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

This is a snipit taken from the page that Repete posted above.

Quote
"Overbore Cases and Accuracy
Barrel life may not be the only thing predicted by the ratio of powder capacity to bore cross-section area. John thinks that if we look at our most accurate cartridges, such as the 6 PPC, and 30 BR, there’s some indication that lower Index numbers are associated with greater inherent accuracy. This is only a theory. John notes: “While I do not have the facilities to validate the hypothesis that the case capacity to bore area ratio is a good predictor of accuracy — along with other well-known factors — it seems to be one important factor.”
Unquote.

Now after reading the authors theory on non-overbore cartridges having some indication that they are better for accuracy, looking at the chart shows the 7mm Rem Mag, 243 win in the overbore category but I would not call them slouches in the accuracy department!!

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

Ominivision1 wrote:
the chart shows the 7mm Rem Mag, 243 win in the overbore category but I would not call them slouches in the accuracy department!!

Agreed!

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: The Dying WSSMs and others doomed for extinction Reply with quote

I think it's interesting to see that when you do the math for a .250 Savage you get 901 !!!
I don't think you'll get anyone to say that the lil ol Savage is anywhere remotely close to being a barrel burner, but there it is just entering the danger zone.

This chart only emphasizes what I've said about short mags.
When comparing the 25WSSM to the 25-06 the velocities are very close to one another but the shorty does it with less case capacity giving it a 174 point advantage on the chart.
Similar results can be seen when doing comparisons with the big 7's and 300's, maybe not as dramatic but non the less choosing a cartridge based upon it's overbore status seems to be an odd way to decide the best tool for the job at hand.

Here's another interesting point; ask anyone which one is a barrel burner, a 220 Swift or a 7RM...... I'll bet just about everyone will answer the .220 but the chart says the 7 is the more likely to do so. It all boils down to how it is used and how much abuse it receives.
Take a .222 Remington (685 on the chart) to a prairie dog town and push 40gr bullets all summer long at max or near max loads without giving due regard to barrel heat.......I think you know what will happen.


A note that should be made about the calculations...... actual case capacities can fluctuate from brand to brand and military cases usually have less capacity, this will a have an affect on the final number and possible placement on the chart.

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