HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 486
BOT: 1
Total: 487
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: News
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Home
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Home
15: Forums
16: Home
17: Your Account
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Photo Albums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Your Account
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Photo Albums
30: Forums
31: Photo Albums
32: Photo Albums
33: Home
34: Statistics
35: Forums
36: Home
37: Photo Albums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Photo Albums
41: Forums
42: Home
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Your Account
46: Home
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Home
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Photo Albums
54: Your Account
55: Your Account
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Your Account
60: Forums
61: Home
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Your Account
75: Your Account
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Your Account
79: Forums
80: Forums
81: Your Account
82: Your Account
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Your Account
87: Statistics
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Your Account
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Your Account
96: Forums
97: Home
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Your Account
103: Home
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Your Account
107: Home
108: Photo Albums
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Home
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Photo Albums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Home
120: Forums
121: Photo Albums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Your Account
126: Forums
127: Home
128: Home
129: Your Account
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Photo Albums
133: Forums
134: Your Account
135: Forums
136: Your Account
137: Forums
138: Home
139: Home
140: Forums
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Forums
149: Your Account
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Forums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Photo Albums
165: Forums
166: Your Account
167: Forums
168: Forums
169: Forums
170: Forums
171: Forums
172: Your Account
173: Photo Albums
174: Photo Albums
175: Forums
176: Forums
177: Photo Albums
178: Forums
179: Forums
180: Home
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Forums
184: Forums
185: Your Account
186: Forums
187: Your Account
188: Forums
189: Forums
190: Home
191: Your Account
192: Home
193: Home
194: Your Account
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Forums
198: Forums
199: Photo Albums
200: Photo Albums
201: Forums
202: Photo Albums
203: Forums
204: Home
205: Forums
206: Your Account
207: Forums
208: Home
209: Forums
210: Forums
211: Forums
212: Your Account
213: Forums
214: Your Account
215: Your Account
216: News
217: Home
218: Forums
219: Forums
220: Home
221: Forums
222: Forums
223: Photo Albums
224: Forums
225: Forums
226: Forums
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Photo Albums
230: Photo Albums
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Forums
235: Forums
236: Your Account
237: Forums
238: Forums
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Photo Albums
242: Forums
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Forums
247: Photo Albums
248: Forums
249: Photo Albums
250: Forums
251: Photo Albums
252: Forums
253: Your Account
254: Your Account
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Your Account
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Forums
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Home
266: Forums
267: Home
268: Forums
269: Forums
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Forums
273: Forums
274: Forums
275: Your Account
276: Forums
277: Forums
278: Photo Albums
279: Forums
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Your Account
283: Your Account
284: Your Account
285: Photo Albums
286: Forums
287: Forums
288: Forums
289: Forums
290: Forums
291: Forums
292: Home
293: Forums
294: Forums
295: Home
296: Your Account
297: Forums
298: Forums
299: Your Account
300: Photo Albums
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: News
304: Forums
305: Forums
306: Forums
307: Forums
308: Forums
309: Forums
310: Your Account
311: Forums
312: Your Account
313: Forums
314: Photo Albums
315: Forums
316: Photo Albums
317: Forums
318: Forums
319: Your Account
320: Forums
321: Forums
322: Forums
323: Forums
324: Your Account
325: Forums
326: Your Account
327: Forums
328: Photo Albums
329: Forums
330: Forums
331: Forums
332: Forums
333: Your Account
334: Your Account
335: Forums
336: Your Account
337: Photo Albums
338: Forums
339: Forums
340: Your Account
341: Forums
342: Your Account
343: Forums
344: Forums
345: Forums
346: Forums
347: Forums
348: Forums
349: Forums
350: Forums
351: Photo Albums
352: Forums
353: Your Account
354: Forums
355: Forums
356: Forums
357: Forums
358: Forums
359: Forums
360: Photo Albums
361: Forums
362: Forums
363: Forums
364: Forums
365: Forums
366: Forums
367: Forums
368: Forums
369: Forums
370: Forums
371: Your Account
372: Your Account
373: Forums
374: Forums
375: Photo Albums
376: Forums
377: Home
378: Contact
379: Forums
380: Forums
381: Forums
382: Forums
383: Your Account
384: Forums
385: Forums
386: Forums
387: Forums
388: Forums
389: Forums
390: Forums
391: Forums
392: Home
393: Your Account
394: Forums
395: Forums
396: Forums
397: Forums
398: Forums
399: Forums
400: Forums
401: Forums
402: Forums
403: Your Account
404: Your Account
405: Photo Albums
406: Home
407: Forums
408: Forums
409: Photo Albums
410: Forums
411: Home
412: Forums
413: Photo Albums
414: Forums
415: Statistics
416: Forums
417: Forums
418: Forums
419: Forums
420: Forums
421: Forums
422: Forums
423: Forums
424: Forums
425: Forums
426: Forums
427: Forums
428: Forums
429: Home
430: Forums
431: Your Account
432: Forums
433: Forums
434: Forums
435: Photo Albums
436: Your Account
437: Forums
438: Home
439: Forums
440: Forums
441: Photo Albums
442: Forums
443: Your Account
444: Photo Albums
445: Your Account
446: Forums
447: Forums
448: Home
449: Forums
450: Your Account
451: Forums
452: Forums
453: Your Account
454: Forums
455: Forums
456: Forums
457: Forums
458: Your Account
459: Your Account
460: Forums
461: Your Account
462: Your Account
463: Photo Albums
464: Photo Albums
465: Forums
466: Your Account
467: Forums
468: Forums
469: Your Account
470: Your Account
471: Forums
472: Photo Albums
473: Photo Albums
474: Photo Albums
475: Forums
476: Forums
477: Forums
478: Your Account
479: Home
480: Forums
481: Forums
482: Forums
483: Forums
484: Forums
485: Forums
486: Forums
  BOT:
01: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

No. 4 Mk 1*
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 5001
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 5:58 pm    Post subject: No. 4 Mk 1* Reply with quote

Sometime around 1990 I bought a Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk 1* for $75, with the intent of sporterizing it. A military collector friend gave me so much grief about "Bubba-ing" it that I set it aside to think about what I wanted to do. It’s been sitting in the gun cabinet ever since. I got it out this week, started looking at the markings, and got confused.

On the left side of the receiver it is stamped “No 4 Mk 1*”. On the right side of the wrist it is stamped “F.R. 1963 R.F.I.”. The serial number, on the receiver and barrel, is “03 8XX”. The butt stock is stamped “S↑A I”. It has an “L” shaped aperture sight at the rear of the receiver. It has a zinc butt plate. It is chambered for .303 Brit.

I knew that R.F.I. was Ishapore, India. I first thought it might be an Ishapore 2A or 2A1 but they were 7.62x51mm, and had different sights. My quick research says that RFI didn’t make No. 4s, only the Mk III and then the 2A and 2A1.

So I went to the gurus in a military weapons group. With their help it appears that this rifle was manufactured by Savage in the US for the British army, in 1942-43. By 1963 it was in India. The "F.R." means Factory Repair/Rebuild. The Indians removed the previous markings (you can kinda see where they were ground off and refinished) and added their own.

I'm still not sure what to do with it. At the moment I'm leaning toward just cleaning the stock then leaving it as is. The bore looks good.

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9239
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: No. 4 Mk 1* Reply with quote

DO NOT bubbafy her...PLEASE....... SHE IS A PIECE OF HISTORY.... folks over here are putting them back to origonal condition....most KIWIS over 45years old started hunting /shooting using a cut down SMLE.....they have been workhorse for many . finding one in good condition is rare...the $$$$ value of one is about the same as a new browning bolt action with scope and suppressor fitted....similar to a blazer if numbers match.bubbafied....half price of a botton tier savage/mossberg/remington sps
shooting animal with rifle thats over a hundred years old...PRICELESS.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: No. 4 Mk 1* Reply with quote

Yep...agreed Elvis. I'm a bit of a purist in this respect...which is why my #5 is original apart from a modern NO GUNSMITH sight mount and sight. I much prefer to see a rifle in original condition (so long as that condition is good) than seeing a sporterized, or as you say Bubbified.

Will it be a good hunting rifle...who knows, and you won't know until you get it on the range and put a few rounds through it, but if nothing else, you will have a range plinker with history.

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2438
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:43 am    Post subject: Re: No. 4 Mk 1* Reply with quote

Pumpkin, you'll be surprised when you reload them with blackpowder and a non-sized (as casted) lead bullet. And don't worry: you cann't get 75 grs of BP in that case, but just fill them up with as much as possible.
After shooting you should clean the cases with boiling water and oxy-clean.
I have seen another topic started here about powder coating. I think hunting with such a BP reload and a powdercoated bullet of rather soft lead can be more than priceless...

and I forgot to mention: you can take a mould of a .308 bullet to cast and use it as casted.
Back to top
View user's profile
Gil Martin
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 1837
Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: No. 4 Mk 1* Reply with quote

All good points. Savage Arms made No.4 Mark 1 rifles in .303 caliber and mine are marked "U.S. Property". This was part of the Lend Lease Program prior to the U.S. entry into WWII. I agree that classic military arms should remain in original condition. I would not shoot blackpowder loads in a military rifle not designed for it unless it was a muzzleloader. Regarding the stock, my recommendation would be to merely rub in a small amount of boiled linseed oil. Enjoy your classic rifle.

You did very well. All the best...
Gil

_________________
Gil
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2438
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: No. 4 Mk 1* Reply with quote

Gil, what was the original .303 British load?
So why not reloading it with black powder? I know it works fine, it even kicks almost the same...
Back to top
View user's profile
Gil Martin
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 1837
Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 1:48 am    Post subject: Re: No. 4 Mk 1* Reply with quote

Aloysius, Not sure what era you are referring to, but I doubt the the No. 4 Mk 1* was designed to shoot blackpowder. Of course it is possible to reload cast bullets with blackpowder in a .303 British load. However, the cleanup after shooting such loads involves more than just the cases. The rifle needs to be carefully cleaned to remove any blackpowder residue. It depends what you prefer. All the best...
Gil

_________________
Gil
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:23 am    Post subject: Re: No. 4 Mk 1* Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
Gil, what was the original .303 British load?
So why not reloading it with black powder? I know it works fine, it even kicks almost the same...

Gil...Aloys is correct mate...

.303 In The Beginning

".303 British in the Beginning

The .303 British started as a blackpowder, jacketed-bullet cartridge- not the best combination. The bullet was a long, 215-grain FMJ RN over a pelleted charge of blackpowder. Most sources state the muzzle velocity was 1,850 fps from a 30-inch test barrel, the length used in original Lee-Metford Mk1 service rifles. Note that I included "long" in the bullet description. That bullet placed demands on rifle chambers that affected future development of .303 service ammunition.

The transition from blackpowder to smokeless powder happened quickly. About 1891 a bundle of cordite replaced the pellet of blackpowder and produced velocities up to 2,050 fps, similar to U.S. .30-40 Krag 220-grain service ammo. This also forced a change in how barrels were rifled to deal with rapid wear from high-temperature cordite gases."


_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Gil Martin
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 1837
Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: No. 4 Mk 1* Reply with quote

Agreed. Thanks for the clarity. All the best...
Gil

_________________
Gil
Back to top
View user's profile
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2438
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: No. 4 Mk 1* Reply with quote

And it's easier to clean black powder foaling than to get that nasty preservation stuff out of the system the first time you clean a rifle coming from the army stock...
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 7 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.