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A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Handloader
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:11 pm    Post subject: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

While I am a traditionalist on many things related to firearms, I am a sucker for trying new things that promise big results. In a way, this is part of the traditional aspect of wildcating and experimenting.

My first "snake oil" was colloidial graphite wads. They came in sheets of varying thicknesses and were pressed into the mouth of the rifle case after the powder was dropped. The bullet was then seated. Upon firing, the bore would have a micro coating of graphite tha would, supposedly, ease cleaning and assure more accuracy and barrel life. Maybe, it did. My 1968 Ruger No1B in 22.250 now has over 7,000 rounds through the barrel and is just now showing some signs of errosion. But accuracy was the same with or without the wads. I can't get them anymore, so, its a moot point. Interestingly, gun cranks back in the late 40s and 50s were convinced they were beneficial.

When the moly coated bullet craze hit, I bought into that as well. Promises of extended barrel life and accuracy were enough bait to have me bite and soon everything I loaded in centerfire had to be moly coated. We don't see much moly enthusiasm today as we find that moly fouling is much harder to remove than copper and trying to get all that moly out of a barrel that has used it extensively is very time consuming. It didn't effect accuracy and I can't attest to extended barrel life.

I bought a nice 20X bore scope two years ago and looking at the throat of any rifle can be shocking if that rifle has more than a thousand rounds or so through it. So, comparing graphite wads and moly coated bullets against rifles used without the benefit of either has revealed nothing noteworthy.

A new "snake oil" is on the market and once again I have bitten the bullet, so to speak. The product is called Clean Ballistics; you can read about it at www.CleanBallistics.com. I witnessed a demonstration in Las Vegas a few days ago where an AR15 with 500 rounds through it shot five bullets treated with Clean Ballistics and, presto, the bore was impressively clean. Accuracy was restored! Oh, my -- I've got to try some. It will be here in a few days, my own little kit. Chrono sessions are planned to check SD and accuracy.

Now, if I can just find that formula for changing lead to gold . . .

So, have any of you got "snake oil" stories? Have any tried Clean Ballistics? Confess -- you are amongst friends.
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:48 pm    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

Handloader,

Whats the fun in that I like cleaning my rifle after each string at the range. Laughing

As for Moly we had a post about that a while back where Flint54 mentioned his personal experiences, which would make anyone who's never used it avoid it in the future I'd imagine! Shocked

Dimitri

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

Handloader...Will be interested in your experiments with that new "snake oil" product.

I have very rarely bought into the new and improved products when the wheel isn't broken. By the time I could afford the money and time to buy into the moly coated bullets I had already heard too much "negative" about them so I never tried them. And I had a very good candidate too. I had just bought a brand new Browning A-bolt in .30-06. It never saw one moly coated bullet.

Like I said...Looking forward to the results of your new "snake oil" tests...

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Arizona Hunter
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

Hoppes Elite Gun Cleaner.

Now it does work, however, in my experience it does not clean any better than Butches Bore Shine or Barnes CR-10, for copper and/or powder removal. But the way my friend talked it up, you would have thought just setting the bottle next to the barrel would do the trick.


A Snake Oil that does work:
Never tried Moly, but I did purchase Barnes Blue XLC bullets (all but discontinued now, although I stocked up in 30 cal and 6.5) because they claimed no residue like moly, and FPS increases of 100-200 fps. Well, it was true! Heck in my 30.06 we chronoed three 180 XLC's at an avg of 2902 fps. The accuracy was not very good (about 2.5" as I recall) but they were fast. So I reduced the H4350 and still get 2780 fps and nice accuracy of 3/4" all day any day.
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

For copper removal...Hoppe's Benchrest #9 Copper Solvent...And you are right...Hoppe's Elite takes too many operations and really does not work all that good...Tried it...Once....

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popgun
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

Off topic posts removed by moderator.

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sniper
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

[quote="Handloader"]
And Now, if I can just find that formula for changing lead to gold . . . quote]

Greetings Sirrah! Am Alchemiste, hast need of such art?

Dimitri, that is truly uhhh...unique; seek help immediately! Very Happy

I Really like Wipe Out....leave it overnight, the next day, copper gone, 2 applications at most. It ARE snake oil, but it do work! Roses


Last edited by sniper on Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:14 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

Hey now Sniper, I need help cause I like cleaning my guns ?? Laughing

Dimitri

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sniper
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

Dimitri wrote:
Hey now Sniper, I need help cause I like cleaning my guns ?? Laughing Dimitri


YES! Cool
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

Sniper...That's why I use Hoppe's products. They don't take "over night". I haven't got time to wait over night. I might be off on another tangent by then...I sit down and clean guns. When I'm done I get up and start something else. Like preping and reloading those shells that got my guns dirty in the first place...Damn shells anyway Very Happy

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
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sniper
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

Bushy:
I've never used Hoppe's Benchrest copper remover, but none of the other supposedly super products has worked that well for me on jacket fouling--especially the Elite. Maybe I am just not doing something right. I do hate cleaning my guns for three days after a range session, tho.
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Dimitri
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

Hoppes Elite when I tried it got rid of more fouling then Hoppes #9 did. So now I'm using Hoppes Elite.

Mind you I do scrub down my bores more then running patches through them so that may have played a factor. Smile

Dimitri

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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

Sweets 7.62 (imo) is the best copper remover I have used. It's hard on Bronze brushes and the barrel needs to be oiled after using but it sure gets the job done Very Happy .
joe

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

Run bronze bore brush through bore then a dry patch. With a bore brush saturated in Benchrest #9 scrub the bore 4 or 5 complete strokes and let sit (Muzzle down) for 10 to 15 minutes (for really fouled bores it can be left in over night). Run dry patches until somewhat clean and repeat until you get a clean patch that just has copper solvent on it, run a couple more dry patches until the bore is dry. Run oiled patch and stow. I usually have one, two, three or four handguns and/or rifles going at the same time. Once you get the built up copper out it becomes very easy to get the copper out after each shooting session from then on...

Don't stick yer nose in the bottle to smell this stuff as it will burn the nose hairs right out... Very Happy

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: A New Snake Oil and a History of Failures Reply with quote

Joe...I've heard a lot of good about Sweets. For me, though, the wheel ain't broke so, for now, I'll use Benchrest #9...

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DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
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