.303 Load Development.

Vince · Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:45 pm Post subject: .303 Load Development.

I’ve start putting some loads together for my No5 Mk1 Jungle Carbine. I’ve settled on two powders...ADI2206H (4895) and ADI2208 (Varget)...using Hornady 174gr FMJ projectiles. I am keeping my eyes open for a pack of Hornady 174gr RN as well...these are supposed to be the ducks guts for the old SMLEs.

I’ll post actual loads as I get closer to developing a load because at this time all I have are a series of loads starting at minimum and easing up to half a grain below max with both powders. I’m not sure which powder will be the better yet, although I’m thinking that 2206H might be the go. I’m surprised that nobody lists a load using 8208 for the .303 as this powder is very close to being the same as 2208.

PaulS · Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

The 303 seems to be very accepting of powders. Varget (2208) is recommended a lot but so is IMR 4064, IMR3031, 2209, H414 and IMR4350.
For the size of the case with heavy bullets (unless you have short magazine) I would think that H414 would be just a tad slow and Varget a tiny bit fast. Varget is a versatile powder and seems to hold accuracy as long as you weigh individual charges. It doesn't meter well in either of my measures.

Elvis · Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

see if you can beg borrow or steal a few 123grn pills made for the 7.62x39mm they should be .310 so may work just fine....some guys use them a lot....if they work for you fine some zombiemax ones...they are a SST just puke green. you will want to work brass as little as possible,basically not much more than a neck size and leave body alone if you can....plenty of cast options out there too.
the beauty of using a 123grn pill will be the drastic reduction in recoil....the jungle carbines were the only smle fitted with a recoil pad...and it was fitted for a reason.

Elvis · Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

www.ballisticstudies.c...itish.html

here you go Mate....put your eye crutches on and have a squizz what Mr Foster has to say.

Aloysius · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:35 am Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

Vince, wrong start... first you have to examine headspace.
In S-Africa they use an O-ring on the neck to make sure the case is touching the bolt before the shot (and not stretching after the bullet left the case). Folowed by necksizing only.

The first part of the bolt (that small part that's touching the case) is available in several sizes. Because the bolt is locked at the end (and not close to the barrel as with the Mauser action), you need different first parts according how many (and how much pressure) rounds are fired.

For your info: mine is also a jungle carbine, a III* from 1916. It doesn't have the peep, but it has wood till the front of the barrel. (one day I'll learn to put pictures here Smile

)

Vince · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:27 am Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

“Paul” wrote:

...Varget is a versatile powder and seems to hold accuracy as long as you weigh individual charges. It doesn't meter well in either of my measures.

The metering problem is due to the size of the rod shaped granules. I throw my charges .5 of a grain light then trickle the remainder in up to the desired load weight. I looked at 8208 for this very reason and found it to be as versatile as 2208 (Varget) and because it has smaller granules it meters excellently. I use it to load .223 .243 and 30.30 with good results.

Elvis, I don’t find the recoil of a .303 to be excessively uncomfortable...yet...mate, but we’ll see how it goes.

I am loading ysing LEEs Collet dies to neck size only, but I will be keeping a close eye on the cases for head separation signs. I’ll have a look at the headspace and if need be, I’ll look at either shimming or trying to find a longer bolt head.

Aloysius · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:38 am Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

In my opinion, headspace is not a big problem as long as you keep on necksizing only. Problem could be for a factory round (or a full length sized case) that the fire-pin pushes the round forward before ignition. After ignition, the neck will expand and be fixed in the chamber. When the pressure increases the bottom of the case is pushed back to the bolt and case length increases. And because the locking lugs of the Enfield bolt are that far backwards, this bolt is more sensitive and will get headspace sooner than a Mauser bolt.
But such a Lee Enfield with reduced loads using (heavy) lead pills or the 123 grs pills of a Kalashnikov is very pleasant to shoot at the range (and at small game). For lead bullets I use non-sized .308 ones.

Elvis · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

agree Vince the ol 3o never was a hard kicker.....BUT if you got barrel so hot it was whipping around like a limp noodle or fired a great number of rounds till nickle/lead/copper built up in rifling then they tended to get a bit savage..... cant see you mag dumping (lol) on big mob of reds or goats anytime soon.

Elvis · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

there is a heck of a lot of info in the above link...including how to fix bedding on the old girls..... funny you will now become a "half open bolt" guy and the safety catch will be redundant........ the old SMLE is the reason so many older KIWIS and I include my self in this....use a half open bolt when stalking.

dhc4ever · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

Not only on 303 Elvis.
Since about 1983 ish, I carry with an open bolt, well round in chamber, bolt not closed.
That had everything to do with hunting in the middle of South Australia with a fairly inexperienced mate who slipped on a rock and hit the ground like a sack of manure, discharging his rifle in the process.
No one was injured except 3 sets of undies, reality then came home to roost.
3 km from vechicle, 100km to main road another 50 km to nearest medical facility.
Not good odds for a gunshot wound.
In short we phucked up, as a group, from that point on I have never carried with a live round in the chamber and the bolt closed and I make sure no one in any group i hunt with does either, simple common sense is sometimes only seen in hindsight.
Vince,
I see you are now giving Gill a run for the hidden bargin awards, nice score.
Two things to remember, they bark LOUDLY and they have a rear locking action which doesnt like max loads for long periods.
Never heard the story on wandering zero on these, a new one on me.

Vince · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

Elvis wrote:

there is a heck of a lot of info in the above link...including how to fix bedding on the old girls..... funny you will now become a "half open bolt" guy and the safety catch will be redundant........ the old SMLE is the reason so many older KIWIS and I include my self in this....use a half open bolt when stalking.

Yes mate, I agree...heaps of good info in that link. One thing I need to do is to try and source a GO/NO GO gauge to check the headspace. I have one for the .30 BMG and .50 BMG, but I don’t think they will be of much use. Scratch

Pete, yep, it was a good score for sure mate, and I reckon I topped Gil on this one for a couple of reasons. It came with a Slazenger Model 12, two Damascus barrelled 12g shottie’s (one a muzzle loader from the 1850s and the other a break action from late around the turn of the century) although both are wall hangers...maybe. And the best part is they cost me nothing...zilch...they were given to me by a friend who wanted to dispose of them. I’ve since bought the .303 onto the books and kept the shottie’s for further restoration.

pete4d · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

Vince take with a grain of salt , for what it's worth,,, Cheers

This is just a few of my loads I shoot in a No4 Mk1 with a 21 3/4 inch barrel. All these loads were chronograph.

H4350 47-grains
174 grain Woodleigh Protected point 1"inch group at 50-yds
2207 average fps

This is my main hunting load, below

IMR 4895 42-grains
174-grain Woodleigh Protected point 3/4" group at 100-yds
2366-average fps

IMR 4895 44.5-grains {EDITED 10/03/19 WRONG load}
125-grain Sierra soft point
2263 average fps

IMR 4895 43.0-grains
150-grain Hornady soft point
2595-average fps

Maybe these will help in your load development ,,,

Another link I've used for load development
www.303british.com/id1.html

As for sizing cases just do the neck sizing the cases will last longer. ( I'm going on 8-10 reloads now on some cases since I changed over}
The O-ring trick works on sizing your cases for your gun on the first firing, helps too center the case in the chamber.

The case separation is normally about 1/2 inch above the rim ,,,look for any blacking in that area after firing ,,,I've had a few Remington cases {NEW} that only lasted 3 reloads... PPU cases are my go to cases now and their 150-grain and 174 grain shells are fairly accurate for target practice and empty cases for reloading ...

Another thing you may want too look at is adding a check rest....

www.gunpartscorp.com/s...amp;page=6

some fairly good links that I used on bedding my No4

www.bing.com/videos/se...ORM=VDRVRV
Cheers

pete4d · Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:10 am Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

Vince wrote:

Elvis wrote:

there is a heck of a lot of info in the above link...including how to fix bedding on the old girls..... funny you will now become a "half open bolt" guy and the safety catch will be redundant........ the old SMLE is the reason so many older KIWIS and I include my self in this....use a half open bolt when stalking.

Yes mate, I agree...heaps of good info in that link. One thing I need to do is to try and source a GO/NO GO gauge to check the headspace. I have one for the .30 BMG and .50 BMG, but I don’t think they will be of much use. Scratch

Pete, yep, it was a good score for sure mate, and I reckon I topped Gil on this one for a couple of reasons. It came with a Slazenger Model 12, two Damascus barrelled 12g shottie’s (one a muzzle loader from the 1850s and the other a break action from late around the turn of the century) although both are wall hangers...maybe. And the best part is they cost me nothing...zilch...they were given to me by a friend who wanted to dispose of them. I’ve since bought the .303 onto the books and kept the shottie’s for further restoration.

Vince.... As for the headspace you may want to try this spent primer trick,it worked for me, instead of spending $60.00 or so on a go-or-no-go-gauge.

www.bing.com/videos/se...ORM=VDRVRV

Another little safety warning,, trying to remember Scratch

,from 5-6 years ago, it was on one of the military forums , ,It was about the military surplus ammo some from South Africa or may-be Greece would build up too much pressure as it was loaded for machine guns, used in the airplanes.... Shooting

Vince · Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

That’s a good video on headspace Pete...I’ll certainly be trying his primer method to check the headspace in my rifle.

I won’t be using surplus ammo in my rifle...it’s too corrosive. I bought 100 rounds of Prvi Partizan (PPU) loaded with the 174gr FMJ plus I bought another 100 PPU unprimed cases, and it is these 200 I will be using to reload.

Elvis · Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: .303 Load Development.

sounds like you are sorted with fodder for her...look forward to watching and seeing how you get on.