Dimitri,
As a minister I can tell you that you have probably not injured God even a little bit. I am also sure thet we are going to have a long chat and a few good laughs when I leave this Earth. God - or whatever name you give to the creator - has to have one heck of a sense of humor.

Definition of a preacher and minister:
Preacher tells people how they should live.
A minister helps people deal with the way they do live.

wow this thread has become a discussion on religion
I am not a church going man myself other than weddings n funerals but I am still a believer.
my personal take on things is God/the creator put me on this earth to do my thing. If I live to the best of my abilities and try not to be toobad along the way I hope I get a pass mark at the end.
If not well I did my thing and if its not enough well ka sarah sarah.
I dont have a problem with chrisiananity or faith but I do have issues with certain sects of religion who try to tell me what I should/should not do.
I feel closest to our creator when Im out bush hunting just me and the birds n bees.
just my $2 worth.
live n let live.

Elvis,
The best cathedral I was ever in was out in the woods. I foumd myself standing in a 30 foot clearing surrounded by a grove of 1500+ year old trees. It took my breath away standing there among some of the Creator's best work. Spiritual is just not strong enough to describe it.

PaulS I agree totaly there are places out in the wilds that make a man VERY humble.

Elvis wrote:

I dont have a problem with chrisiananity or faith but I do have issues with certain sects of religion who try to tell me what I should/should not do. I feel closest to our creator when Im out bush hunting just me and the birds n bees. just my $2 worth. live n let live.

Well said Elvis...I couldn't have put it better myself mate.

Cheers, Vince

Dimitri wrote:

inthedark wrote: To qualify your statement you would have not been baptised in the Christian church. You would not admit that you are sinful just like the rest of us. You would not pray and ask truthfully for forgiveness from God the father, the son and the holy spirit and be repentant for your sins. You would not attend church and partake of communion. Now, if you have done all things then you are covered by the blood of Christ and you will go to heaven. Case Closed! I was baptized, I can count the number of times I've taken communion in the last decade with my thumbs. And well my view on religion doesn't agree with the various Christian Churches I've been to. inthedark wrote: no other books of the Christian Bible other than the Old Testament and the New Testament. Well I can see your not Catholic, however, I've got issues with the New Testament seeing as the New Testament conflicts with the word of God its supposed to follow from the Old. And the Old clearly states anyone who tries to deviate from the Old, is not one of God. Which is why I think I am sinful, Priests have told me that multiple times, that I am a very sinful person and that I need to think long and hard and repent for my argument about the New Testament. Apparently not having blind faith and trying to make sense of the words in the bible, makes you sinful. Dimitri

Hey Dimitri ,you don't have the market cornered on sin. You are no more and no less than I or anyone else. All mankind is sinful. And I am not picking a fight with you or anyone else. I enjoy learning about the guys and gals on this forum from their posts and I would love to get together with everyone and drink some beers and eat some BBQ.

As you said that you have not been to church other than a couple of times. You cannot know about what is written in the Bible unless you attended church or someone who can explain what is written. Of course there are a great deal of non Christian religions posing as Christian along with false prophets. I had a very poor understanding of the bible until I went to confirmation classes and my marriage classes. I was very embarrassed with what I thought I knew and repeated.

About the Bible's two testaments The Old testament speaks to the coming of the Messiah or annointed one (Christ) Savior or the Lord Saves(Jesus) was born and made man and God. The Old Testament is LAW. From the time of Christ on earth to the time of his Crucifixian and rising to heaven and afterwards is when the New Testament is written. The New Testament if Gospel (or Good News). The Jewish faith uses the Old Testament along with the Torah etc only because they do not believe that the messiah has come to earth. The Moslems believe that Jesus Christ or Christ Jesus was a prophet and not the messiah.

A Faith Based on Historical Fact - "did it all really happen? At first glance, the history Christianity's origin may seem like nothing more than a fairy tale. Many feel that it's just too implausible, and even intellectually dishonest, for people living in the 21st century to believe that these events actually took place. However, the Christian faith, unlike any other religion, hinges on historical events, including one of pivotal importance. If Jesus Christ died and never rose to life, then Christianity is a myth or a fraud. In 1 Corinthians 15:14, Paul exhorts his readers to grab hold of this central truth, that "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain." The evidence for the resurrection is the key to establishing that Jesus is indeed who He claims to be. It is the historical validity of this central fact that gives Christians genuine and eternal hope amidst a hurting world.

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16).

My parents are Lutheran LCC as am I and my wife. My brother and sister and their familys are all Roman Catholic. WE all manage to get along without any more or any less family squabbles. I am bushed and shall now end my post while it still makes some sense I hope

Inthedark, just a question: everything arround Christ happened to the Jews. How is it possible that someone could take everything writen by the Jews, say to them they are wrong and make an own religion based on their tales?

For me, I believe in Saint-Hubertus. He sends me game or not. And he makes me miss or not. He does a lots of things to nature I like and for me, he's always right and I only can accept his judgement, support or obstructions. He can give the right answers to a lot of "why?"-questions.
And this doesn't mean he doesn't need a helping hand to get nature improved.

inthedark wrote:

I enjoy learning about the guys and gals on this forum from their posts and I would love to get together with everyone and drink some beers and eat some BBQ.

Sounds good but only if there is something other then beer to drink. Regretfully, the last few years I've developed a allergy to barley, everything from bread to beer bothers me now.

inthedark wrote:

As you said that you have not been to church other than a couple of times. You cannot know about what is written in the Bible unless you attended church or someone who can explain what is written.

I had a big long post, but figured I'd keep it short and sweet. No Christian Church has ever been truthful of the word of the Bible, to listen and believe their interpretation of the bible, is to do no better then the peasants who couldn't read the bible and had to rely on a Priest who was trying to collect money for "get out of jail free" cards while the majority were too poor to eat let alone to pay for anything. Heck, they even mistranslated it in the written word, to make it more suited to their beliefs.

Believe me when I say, I don't go to church by choice, I did once, regularly, and after sitting down one year to read the bible from Genesis to the end, I was glad I did. Showed me not much has changed with how the various Churches still interpret the Bible.

The New Testament contradicts the Old on many occasions, and the Old says, that if you contradict the word of God, you are not a believer and should be put to death. Which is something no Priest/Minster I ever talked to like me mentioning in any Bible study session. As all Christian Churches close their eyes and pretend like it doesn't exist.

Dimitri

JESUS CHRIST is the answer to salvation,by accepting him as you saviour and asking for giveness of you sins you will be saved!! We all sin and come short of glory of GOD.None of us are good enough to get to heaven on our own.

And Sunday is 4 days away...

PaulS wrote:

Elvis, The best cathedral I was ever in was out in the woods. I foumd myself standing in a 30 foot clearing surrounded by a grove of 1500+ year old trees. It took my breath away standing there among some of the Creator's best work. Spiritual is just not strong enough to describe it.

I can definitely understand your description.
Walking in an old planted pine forest somewhat fits that description.

The green canopy high overhead, the carpet of pine needles completely covers the ground and mutes all sounds.
Murmur of breeze swaying overhead branches.
Row after row of trees gives impression of a large room supported by pillars.
It was awesome.

Dimitri wrote:

inthedark wrote: I enjoy learning about the guys and gals on this forum from their posts and I would love to get together with everyone and drink some beers and eat some BBQ. Sounds good but only if there is something other then beer to drink. Regretfully, the last few years I've developed an allergy to barley, everything from bread to beer bothers me now. inthedark wrote: As you said that you have not been to church other than a couple of times. You cannot know about what is written in the Bible unless you attended church or someone who can explain what is written. I had a big long post, but figured I'd keep it short and sweet. No Christian Church has ever been truthful of the word of the Bible, to listen and believe their interpretation of the bible, is to do no better then the peasants who couldn't read the bible and had to rely on a Priest who was trying to collect money for "get out of jail free" cards while the majority were too poor to eat let alone to pay for anything. Heck, they even mistranslated it in the written word, to make it more suited to their beliefs. Believe me when I say, I don't go to church by choice, I did once, regularly, and after sitting down one year to read the bible from Genesis to the end, I was glad I did. Showed me not much has changed with how the various Churches still interpret the Bible. The New Testament contradicts the Old on many occasions, and the Old says, that if you contradict the word of God, you are not a believer and should be put to death. Which is something no Priest/Minster I ever talked to like me mentioning in any Bible study session. As all Christian Churches close their eyes and pretend like it doesn't exist. Dimitri

The facts of Christianity are that this religion is documented in human history. Christ was born a Jew, and the Jewish people are God's chosen people. A people that were for the most part enslaved in Egypt and other countries and not in the area of the promised land which today is modern day Israel.
The paradox is that whoever believes in Christ (a Jew) may be saved if the spirit of the Lord comes upon them to do so. It is not by choice that we believe but that by the Holy Spirit coming upon us got give us grace to believe.
The Reformation period in our human history came about because the Catholic Church of that period at held political power (religious) over all of Europe. This power transcended boundaries of countries, language and culture. This power was held for one simple reason...language. The bible was written and church services were given mostly in Latin a dead language. The people had to depend upon the monk or priest to tell them what the Bible was saying. In this period, the only people that were educated and could read were the clergy and the nobility. Martin Luther sparked the revolt in Germany and translated the Bible into German so that the common man who could read, could read the words of the Bible for themselves.

I will use a quote here as it explains better than I do:

"Luther became the leader of the Reformation in Germany. For some years he had protested that some of the clergy were selling indulgences (temporal pardons of sins) without making clear that people must also be sincerely repentant for those sins. He especially attacked the monk Johann Tetzel for deceiving the people. In 1517 the angry Luther wrote a list of 95 theses against indulgences and nailed them to the door of the church in Wittenberg."

In the year 2000, the Catholic Church was selling indulgences to people.
NOWHERE in the Bible does it ever speak of this practice, and you are absolutely right to call that an outright lie.

The Bible should be read with itself being the key to its understanding. You do not need any other book to decipher the Bible. Outside of a few instances, everything in the Bible is written in a manner that quotes from different ages support other quotes. The Ten Commandments are a good example of law that stands on its own merit. You must remember that Christ died for our sins and he was the last offering to God for our sins.

I took a interviewing and interrogation course a few years ago called SCan
Scientific Content ANalsys. An Israeli polygraph examiner developed this technique. He did an analysis of the whole Bible that is to say both the Old Testament and the New Testament. He conclusion was that though different people wrote the Bible in different years, it was written by one mind.

I don't know if I will ever fully understand the Bible but I do know that I have faith. And I AM a poor miserable sinner.

'Mitri the Self Confessed wrote:

...but I do know that I have faith. And I AM a poor miserable sinner.

Been meaning to talk to you about that mate...get your act together.

Seriously though...as the Bible says..."Let those among us who are without sin cast the first stone"...or words to that effect. You are no different to anyone else mate...we are all sinners in one way or another.

Cheers, Vince

Vince,

That quote confused the heck out of me, as you quoted inthedark not me.

Over all I don't really break any of the laws in the bible. Save for the whole living with the girlfriend unwed thing.

Dimitri

Dimitri, we all break the laws of the Bible everyday. As for living with the girlfriend, I have or rather we have done that also. When or if the Holy Spirit come upon you, then will you truly have faith and believe in God. "Ephesians 2:8,9 - For by grace you have been saved by faith and this not of your own doing, it is the gift of God, 9- not the result of works, so that no one may boost." The gravity of my confirmation hit me three days after the service and continued for three days. I have never had any event in my life that can compare to my realization of the gift that I had received. I hope that you receive this gift one day.

Aloysius, You are technically correct but you have forgotten that some of those Jews were the first Christians. Those "tales" are the history of Christianity written by man by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The Jewish people of that time were/are God's chosen people. Jesus Christ is God come to earth to be both man and God. He is one part of the triune God. The people of that time needed to see miracles to help them believe. And belief in God is faith. Faith in God and Christ Jesus comes from the Holy Spirit giving you the gift of faith in God(the father,the son, the holy spirit or ghost)

I have had the pleasure of travelling around the world and of having seen all that God has created. Someone, (I don't remember their name) said that for the world to have been created by evolution would be the same as taking all of the parts of a new Cadillac, throwing them into the air and have them assemble themselves into a complete working automobile.
Any Christian religion that maintains its belief in and of the Bible and does not add nor take away from the Bible is correct. I have yet to find in the Bible where it says that a woman may conduct religious services, or that homosexuality is not a sin and is OK, or that one may pay a sum of money for an indulgence, or that there is a purgatory, or that only a Priest, Minister, Pastor, Padre is closer to God or is holier than anyone else. Show me where these things may be found so that I may understand.

I see that Paul S. is a minister, a Christian minister I think? He would be able to bear me out and would be able to correct me as I am a pup when it comes to understanding my faith. I have always thought that I was a faithful Christian and like I have said before, I do not know as much as I think I know. I have the grace of God to be able to come back and regain my faith, for which I am truly grateful. I surely did not that at 54 years of age but it is what it is.

Chimo
inthedark