HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 630
BOT: 1
Total: 631
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Photo Albums
10: Your Account
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Home
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Home
22: Home
23: Forums
24: Home
25: Photo Albums
26: Forums
27: Home
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Home
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Home
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Your Account
38: Home
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Home
44: Forums
45: Photo Albums
46: Photo Albums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Home
50: Forums
51: Home
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Your Account
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Home
69: Photo Albums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Home
73: Forums
74: Your Account
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Home
80: Photo Albums
81: Forums
82: Home
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Home
86: Your Account
87: Forums
88: Your Account
89: Forums
90: Photo Albums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Photo Albums
95: Home
96: Forums
97: Photo Albums
98: Photo Albums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Photo Albums
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Your Account
108: Home
109: Home
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Home
118: Forums
119: Your Account
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Photo Albums
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Your Account
129: Photo Albums
130: Your Account
131: Forums
132: Photo Albums
133: Photo Albums
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Your Account
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Your Account
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Your Account
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Your Account
147: Your Account
148: Home
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Your Account
152: Your Account
153: Forums
154: Your Account
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Photo Albums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Your Account
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Your Account
168: Forums
169: Your Account
170: Forums
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Home
175: Forums
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Your Account
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Photo Albums
184: Your Account
185: Forums
186: Forums
187: Forums
188: Forums
189: Photo Albums
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Your Account
193: Home
194: Photo Albums
195: Home
196: Home
197: Forums
198: Home
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Forums
202: Photo Albums
203: Forums
204: Forums
205: Your Account
206: Forums
207: Forums
208: Forums
209: Forums
210: Forums
211: Forums
212: Forums
213: Forums
214: Forums
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Home
218: Forums
219: Photo Albums
220: Home
221: Forums
222: Forums
223: Home
224: Photo Albums
225: Forums
226: Forums
227: Your Account
228: Home
229: Forums
230: Forums
231: Home
232: Forums
233: Your Account
234: Home
235: Forums
236: Forums
237: Home
238: Forums
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Your Account
243: Forums
244: Photo Albums
245: Forums
246: Forums
247: Your Account
248: Photo Albums
249: Forums
250: Forums
251: Your Account
252: Forums
253: Forums
254: Home
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Forums
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Photo Albums
262: Forums
263: Photo Albums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Photo Albums
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Photo Albums
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Photo Albums
273: Forums
274: Photo Albums
275: Forums
276: Forums
277: Your Account
278: Forums
279: Forums
280: Photo Albums
281: Your Account
282: Forums
283: Home
284: Your Account
285: Home
286: Home
287: Home
288: Forums
289: Home
290: Forums
291: Your Account
292: Forums
293: Forums
294: Forums
295: Forums
296: News
297: Forums
298: Forums
299: Forums
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Home
303: Forums
304: Forums
305: Forums
306: Home
307: Your Account
308: Forums
309: Home
310: Forums
311: Forums
312: Forums
313: Forums
314: Photo Albums
315: Forums
316: Forums
317: Forums
318: Forums
319: Your Account
320: Your Account
321: Home
322: Forums
323: Forums
324: Your Account
325: Your Account
326: Forums
327: Home
328: Forums
329: Forums
330: Forums
331: Photo Albums
332: Forums
333: Forums
334: Forums
335: Forums
336: Forums
337: Forums
338: Forums
339: Forums
340: Home
341: Forums
342: Forums
343: Your Account
344: Forums
345: Forums
346: Home
347: Home
348: Forums
349: Home
350: Forums
351: Home
352: Your Account
353: Photo Albums
354: Photo Albums
355: Forums
356: Home
357: Forums
358: Home
359: Home
360: Forums
361: Forums
362: Forums
363: Forums
364: Forums
365: Forums
366: Forums
367: Home
368: Forums
369: Your Account
370: Your Account
371: Your Account
372: Forums
373: Forums
374: Forums
375: Forums
376: Home
377: Forums
378: Forums
379: Forums
380: Forums
381: Forums
382: Forums
383: Forums
384: Forums
385: Photo Albums
386: Forums
387: Forums
388: Forums
389: Forums
390: Home
391: Home
392: Home
393: Forums
394: Forums
395: Forums
396: Forums
397: Home
398: Forums
399: Home
400: Your Account
401: Forums
402: Forums
403: Forums
404: Your Account
405: Forums
406: Forums
407: Forums
408: Forums
409: Forums
410: Forums
411: Forums
412: Forums
413: Forums
414: Forums
415: Forums
416: Forums
417: Home
418: Home
419: Forums
420: Forums
421: Forums
422: Forums
423: Your Account
424: Forums
425: Forums
426: Forums
427: Your Account
428: Home
429: Forums
430: Forums
431: Photo Albums
432: Forums
433: Your Account
434: Forums
435: Photo Albums
436: Forums
437: Forums
438: Forums
439: Forums
440: Home
441: Photo Albums
442: Forums
443: Forums
444: Photo Albums
445: Your Account
446: Forums
447: Forums
448: Home
449: Forums
450: Photo Albums
451: Forums
452: Forums
453: Home
454: Forums
455: Forums
456: Forums
457: Forums
458: Forums
459: Forums
460: Forums
461: Forums
462: Forums
463: Photo Albums
464: Statistics
465: Your Account
466: Forums
467: Forums
468: Forums
469: Forums
470: Forums
471: Your Account
472: Forums
473: Photo Albums
474: Forums
475: News
476: Your Account
477: Forums
478: Forums
479: Forums
480: Forums
481: Home
482: Forums
483: Forums
484: Forums
485: Forums
486: Forums
487: Forums
488: Your Account
489: Forums
490: Forums
491: Forums
492: Forums
493: Forums
494: Your Account
495: Forums
496: Forums
497: Forums
498: Forums
499: Forums
500: Forums
501: Forums
502: Forums
503: Forums
504: Home
505: Home
506: Statistics
507: Photo Albums
508: Forums
509: Forums
510: Forums
511: Forums
512: Forums
513: Your Account
514: Forums
515: Forums
516: Forums
517: Forums
518: Home
519: Forums
520: Your Account
521: Forums
522: Photo Albums
523: Photo Albums
524: Photo Albums
525: Home
526: Forums
527: Home
528: Forums
529: Forums
530: Photo Albums
531: Home
532: Forums
533: Forums
534: Your Account
535: Forums
536: Photo Albums
537: Photo Albums
538: Forums
539: Forums
540: Photo Albums
541: Photo Albums
542: News
543: Forums
544: Forums
545: Forums
546: Forums
547: Forums
548: Forums
549: Forums
550: Your Account
551: Home
552: Forums
553: Forums
554: Forums
555: Home
556: Forums
557: Your Account
558: Forums
559: Your Account
560: Home
561: Home
562: Your Account
563: Forums
564: Forums
565: Home
566: Home
567: Forums
568: Photo Albums
569: Home
570: Forums
571: Your Account
572: Forums
573: Your Account
574: Your Account
575: Forums
576: Forums
577: Forums
578: Forums
579: Home
580: Forums
581: Your Account
582: Forums
583: Forums
584: Forums
585: Home
586: Forums
587: Forums
588: Home
589: Photo Albums
590: Forums
591: Your Account
592: Photo Albums
593: Home
594: Photo Albums
595: Forums
596: Home
597: Home
598: Photo Albums
599: Home
600: Forums
601: Forums
602: Forums
603: Your Account
604: Home
605: Home
606: Your Account
607: Forums
608: Home
609: Your Account
610: Forums
611: Forums
612: Forums
613: Forums
614: Forums
615: Forums
616: Home
617: Forums
618: Forums
619: Forums
620: Forums
621: Forums
622: Forums
623: Forums
624: Home
625: Forums
626: Photo Albums
627: Forums
628: Forums
629: Your Account
630: Photo Albums
  BOT:
01: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:55 pm    Post subject: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

(posted on RRA but deleted and moved here for discussion/critique)

There's a million variables between given rifles but I think I'm starting to see something that makes sense to my pointed little head and I think it might be the jump and the effect it has on the combustion of the charge.

I'm thinking factory loads (glued or crimped w/ a lot of neck tension, etc) and non-canalured reloads moved close to the lands (bullet acts like a plug in a bottle) have a better shot start pressure/allows the charge to combust more uniformly and consistently w/ less blowby, bullet scouring etc.

I aint sure I'm explaining this right but it makes sense to me that the better the seal on the case/chamber the more uniform the combustion of the powder will be hence better accuracy/consistency if more of the charge can burn behind the bullet and not as much sneak past.

My Mossy sure liked it when I moved the bullet up on the lands w/ my hand loads to cut the jump down on them SMK's and that long distance back to the ogive.

Any of that make any sense or need tweaking? Or am I way off base here and missing the actual physics. I'm not sure but I think I just had an epiphany. Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 6396
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

IMO -
Depending on the speed of powder combustions,
there may or may not be advantage in increasing start pressure in the chamber.

Viz,
on SLOW burning powder, it is best to ensure that ALL powder have at least started to burn before they are being dispersed down a long barrel.
Short of discussing the physics of internal combustion, we know that powders burns best when contained in space and thus high pressure.

As the projectile moves down range in the barrel, pressure decreases;
even more so if the movement of the projectile is faster than the positive addition to the pressure within the chamber due to powder combustion.
This may effect in slowing the combustion to the point that they may have incomplete burns.
To counter this effect, ensuring that each grain of powder have been subjected to their minimum required pressure,
thus combusted adequately prior to their dispersion into the relatively huge space within the barrel,
would ensure a higher consistency of the bullet performance.

Quick burning powders usually completely burned out within a few inches of projectile travel,
regardless of the constriction of projectile movements (either due to heavy crimping or groove forming/friction)
Thus position or constriction of the projectile may have less effect to their final velocity than the effect of "long" barrel friction.
This hold particularly true if you think about the working of a revolver, with the gap between the barrel and cylinder,
massively lowering the pressure within the barrel, an yet able to maintain good accuracy and consistency.

What I am trying to say above is that yes I think your finding is valid when the loads is made up of "slower" rifle powders and being used in long (> 8 inch) barreled gun.
And, it may not hold true if the load is made of "faster" powder and/ or shot in short barrel.



PS. I LOVE this kind of discussion.
Thanks for bringing the subject up Stovie!

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

Stovey, your starting this discussion again? You started the last one on this.

www.huntingnut.com/ind...p&start=15

Though there may be good reason to crimp bullets for revolvers, lever actions, or rifles that bounce their bullets around a lot or get bounced around in transport - I don't think crimping is crucial to powder burn and accuracy in a long barrel rifle. Long range shooters using .45-70 recommended to me not to crimp and not to even neck size. Just seat the bullets into unsized cases. With a faster burning powder, I get complete powder burn.

After the last discussion (post above), I went to one of my shooting buddies who has won several long-range shooting competitions with .223 and 6.5-.284 and asked if he crimped. No he didn’t. I’ve wondered about the seeming large velocity spread on some of my loads with IMR4350 and Barnes bullets but then chrono’d my buddies .270 and he gets similar spreads with factory ammo. His gun spit flame just like mine did with crimped factory ammo.

Last, with Marty’s recommendation, I got some IMR4064 and sure enough, my SD on velocity spread went into single digits – no crimping, just a more consistent burning powder. IMO, Crimping may be one of those factors that helps a particular gun shoot better but I don’t think it is essential to complete combustion, etc.


Last edited by slimjim on Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

Yea....what he said !!! Very Happy

Keep in mind that by starting the bullet closer to the lands you have less of a chance of it entering the barrel off center. This may or may not play into the combustion theory. Then again some bullets need that jump. Once again it all boils down to experimentation.

Do it long enough and you'll start to see commonalities in what works and what don't for certain components.

In the mean time..........If you really enjoy ballistics and want to understand them better get Robert Rinkers book "Understanding Firearm Ballistics"

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

Oh, without a crimp, I can't get my bullets out of my .270 cases with an impact puller. I don't think a little crimp on the end of the case neck is going to change the amount of the neck tension much.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
Stovey, your starting this discussion again? You started the last one on this.

Hmm....OK. Sorta forgot about that one...diff topic, no? Hey- I've hit my head a lot.
I wanted a stand alone to get some input on the goings on when the hammer drops and the bullet starts to enter the bore. It's pretty neat science and I love knowing what makes things tick and the variables involved.

This was a good suggestion and I'm gonna check it out.
Robert Rinkers book "Understanding Firearm Ballistics.

Sorry for beating a dead horse, guys. Embarassed
Back to top
View user's profile
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1065
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

Lets throw annealing brass in there for consistnecy of neck tension too. lots of factors can affect how the brass holds the bullet and then opens to seal the chamber. Sooty cases tell me I m getting too many reloads and need new brass or to anneal the ones I have to make them less work hardened.

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 6396
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

I gather a metric discussion of the subject basing on physics theory is not very interesting to some.

I think those who claim that they do not see differences in whether to crimp or not,
have valid point when they stated their opinion based on their empirical findings.
It seems to me that those findings are limited to a particular gun in particular condition.
I usually deal with reasons, NOT with a claim made by a good friend of mine that happen to have seen the elephant.

The Earth is flat because all I see is flat land type feeling is rife in this society.
But of course, mankind cannot fly nor can we talk to others on the other side of the planet.
I definitely cannot disprove those who have seen ghost or can read the future either.


So yet again another interesting topic meet a sad ending.

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

stovepipe wrote:
I'm gonna check it out. Robert Rinkers book "Understanding Firearm Ballistics.

Stovey book mark this topic let us know what you learn.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

gelandangan wrote:
So yet again another interesting topic meet a sad ending.

Ok, my bad. At least my memory is still working. Didn't mean to throw a wet blanket on the topic.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

chambered221 wrote:

Keep in mind that by starting the bullet closer to the lands you have less of a chance of it entering the barrel off center. This may or may not play into the combustion theory. Then again some bullets need that jump. Once again it all boils down to experimentation.

Let's expand a little on this. If the jump were .050" or .010" and all thing being equal what diff would that make in accuracy if it were askew to begin with, other than the obvious the gun might like it this way....?

I also dont understand why a bullet would need a "jump" to be more accurate. I'm NOT an expert and granted no two guns/loads are alike, but it would seem to me "a" bullet would "like" to start it's journey being up on the lands.
I'm likening moving the bullet to the lands like a propper sized cork in a bottle. It lets pressure build more and evenly w/less blowby. With a better seal in the chamber, given load would be off to a better start, no?

Or does the bullet not act so much like a seal for the chamber and perhaps I'm likening this process too much to an internal combustion engine (better seal = better combustion et. al.)?
Back to top
View user's profile
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

gelandangan wrote:
IMO -
Depending on the speed of powder combustions,
there may or may not be advantage in increasing start pressure in the chamber.

What I am trying to say above is that yes I think your finding is valid when the loads is made up of "slower" rifle powders and being used in long (> 8 inch) barreled gun.
And, it may not hold true if the load is made of "faster" powder and/ or shot in short barrel.



PS. I LOVE this kind of discussion.
Thanks for bringing the subject up Stovie!

Great minds think alike! Yer welcome sir. Cool And don't let the "wet blankets" discourage you. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

There is no doubt that experimentation has proven you should move your bullets in and out to find the position they like to start from !!!

Set a bullet to deep and it's possible it will not enter the barrel square to it's axis. Thus leaving the muzzle with the same off centered force. Set it to far into the lands and the result may be not enough neck tension to allow for proper combustion.
Light for caliber bullets are all most impossible to start at or near the lands.
Some guns have way more throat than need be.
Some bullets such as Barnes don't have give to them like the lead core bullets do.
These are just a few of the variables that you encounter with this subject matter.

When ever this subject gets brought up someone usually throws in the fact of how benchrest shooters do it a certain way. Although true I like to remind them that they are also dealing with cartridges that were designed with all that in mind.

I do appreciate gelans thoughts on the subject and wish him to reconsider and give further comment !!!

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
stovepipe
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 25, 2008
Posts: 4877
Location: Pine, Az.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

And I as well-

But.....what are your thoughts on combustion efficientcy when the bullet makes a better seal on the end of the case/chamber?

Does my point hold any merrit or?.... 150gr factory hunt loads jump a country mile in my 300 yet they will clover leaf or better @ 100y if I hold well. They have a ton of neck tension/adheasion.

My 200gr handloads like being just OTL. Very little neck tension on these comparitivley speaking. I could only duplicate that type of neck tension with a crimp (0 cannalure on the MK) and an adheasive.

I'm thinking the only two things in common there is the powders are combusting well (and all that goes with same) creating an efficient burn and pressure starting the bullet on it's way w/ less undesired effects.
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: shot start presure, bullet jump, complete combustion Reply with quote

I saw Robert Rinkers book "Understanding Firearm Ballistics" in Cabela's today. I should have picked it up for a reference! I'd really prefer a digital copy.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 3
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.