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Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups?
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HayCreek
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

+1 with 44marty

I shoot mine the way you do but, I use only 3 shot groups for round robin.
Have you found a 5 shot group more definitive?
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

3 shots when sighting in, dial in any changes another 3 shots to confirm. and other than that as many shots as it takes to stop the hua kicking!!!
I dont shoot alot of paper these days.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

I think the "multi trip to the range over time group" is a good tool for analyzing the "stability' of a load/rifle combination whether you do it with one or two shots. But that is after 3-5-10 shot groups have been used to select the final product.

Simlar to expiration date testing on drugs. Test them over time against the new manufacturing specification to see how long it will remain stable

I think I read a Layne Simpson article in Shooting Times about 15 years ago where he talked about the five year group where he would shoot at the same target with his deer hunting rifle with a clean cold bore.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

try a group with ALL the loads you have for your rifle. thats a good indication of where it will put a shot.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

I've been shooting 3 shot groups for load development in rifles, 5 shots in handguns. I think I'm going to start using 4 shots in rifles though. In .22 RF load tests I shoot 5 throw-away shots to "condition" the bore then 5 shot groups. For chronographing I like to shoot 10 shot groups with the load that was most accurate in previous testing.

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44marty
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

HayCreek wrote:
+1 with 44marty

I shoot mine the way you do but, I use only 3 shot groups for round robin.
Have you found a 5 shot group more definitive?

I have found that 5-shot groups help better eliminate outside variables (like wind gusts, a pulled shot, etc). 99% of the time 3 shots would be fine. It's more a matter of personal confidence in the results than necessity. Plus, like I mentioned earlier, the more rounds I shoot, the happier I am.

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HayCreek
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

Good point, Marty. Smile

Makes a lot of sense. I kinda got locked into 3-shot groups, trying to minimize component expenditure. But, sometimes I wonder whether I've pulled a shot or it's the load. Seems, in the long run, a 5-shot group would be better.
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

to get rid of the pulled shot variable cheat and do 4 shots and use the best 3.

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HayCreek
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

NoNo no cheating allowed. Laughing
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

Yo SlimJ I agree with your reasoning. If you want to know what your hunting shot is going to be like (first cold shot) then the long wait is the way to do it. Your entire set-up and yourself are going from no warm-up nothing, to a cold first shot. What better way to simulate it? If you're shooting more than once then you're not simulating the hunt aspect.

Just take that once a month or once a week target along with you when you wanna shoot and use other targets for the plinkin. I have targets hanging on a wall in my loading room that I compare for load developing and over time you can tell if you're getting close or not.

Suz

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:55 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

Suz, same here. I always take my .270 hunting rifle with me to the range. I may be shooting other rifles or pistols that day, but I always take my hunting rifle with me and put a shot down range at 100 yards and keep track of the result.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

The amount of shots for grouping should be determined by it's intended use !!!
I develop all my loads with 3 shot groups then proof the load as it might be shot.
I'm of the opinion if the load can put 3 in a satisfactory group it's capable of more ...... the gun and the nut behind the butt determine it from there. Shocked

With a deer rifle you need to know where that first cold bore shot will be with knowledge of POI for follow up shots.
(it's nice having a rifle that puts them in the same place !!!) Very Happy
I typically will shoot 3 consecutive shots in the weather I would be hunting in to get the best possible recreation of said event. If I'm going to shoot another group I'll wait until the bore is completely cold again.
If you need to take more than 3 shots at a deer it's time for you to admit your shooting beyond your effective range. At this point you need to worry more about your shooting skills in the field more than your bench practice/technique.

With my varmint gun as with my deer rifle I always take note of that first cold bore shot. I will usually follow that with 4 shots at a rather slow pace to allow some cooling between shots for a 5 shot group. This is what will typically occur while I'm shooting afield if multiple shots are taken for whatever reason.
I will generally then let the barrel cool to different degrees and shoot a single shot multiple times at another target to confirm POI isn't wandering.
I will also test to see how many shots can be taken before wandering occurs. My current gun can typically give me 6-8 shots (depending on load) before this happens.

If I were to shoot competitively with a rifle I would obviously proof things in an appropriate manner.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

So far with the .30-30 and the .30-06 I have found my load for each. Other then practice during the summer months leading up to hunting season, I will fire three fouling shots. Then it's off to the hunting grounds.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

What if I shoot 1-shot groups?
Don't think you can improve my groups by shooting 3, 5 or even 10 shots...

to be honnest: I don't like paper. So (when I'm alone or with friends only on the range) I don't make holes (which I have to hide with a sticker afterwards), but I shoot stones on different distances and only upto 200 m. I don't live in a country where I can safely shoot at game much further. When I look at 500 m distances, most of the time I also see cars, bikes, houses, cattle, ...
for most hunters here in Belgium 100 m is their maximum to shoot at game, so why should they try to make nice groups at 300 m?

Even with a shotgun on small game we have to watch out or somebody starts shouting. A roof is big and shot goes always further than expected...

On the other hand: our hunting insurance is still very cheap, so I suppose we get a lot af help of our St.-Hubertus Smile
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Do you shoot 3- or 5-shot groups? Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
On the other hand: our hunting insurance is still very cheap,

Aloys, I always look forward and enjoy reading your posts! I don't know what to expect.

So you have to have hunting insurance???

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