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Thompson Center Contender
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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SwampFox
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Location: Destin, Florida

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

Kauko,
With the 357 Max (Super Mag) you should be able to use 231 in the 357 or 357 Max case with the 200 grain bullet to get to sub sonic velocity without loss of constant ignition. When reloading for silhouette use, I noticed that 231 does not seem to care what the case capacity is, it just shoots at the same velocity with a 38 Spl or 357 Mag cases. So the 357 case in the max or the max case should work just fine.

You might also be able to use H-110 at a charge weight below 12 grains with the 200. 12 grains in a 357 mag case with the 200 gives you 1,160 fps out of an 8 inch barrel.
Ed

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K.W.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

Thank You SwampFox. I can´t to find 231 W-W powder here. Last sommer was using N-320 VihtaVuori Powder. Is it like WSL, No 2, Red Dot, HI-Skor 700X. T/C 14" 5,4gr 158 copperpladet re-sitzet cast bullet was quiet. (Ohler is kaputt!) 190gr cast bullet quiet too. VihtaVuori has new powder N- 32C (Silver Star) for cow boy shooting. I was s tarting N-32C 6,94gr for cheap BSA-pistol scope loading. It was very accurate. To day I was making 5,4gr loads and will go to tomorrow to shoot those loads.There is no loading guide for N-32C


Last edited by K.W. on Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Vince
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

Kauko Waskilampi wrote:
Thank You SwampFox. I can´t to find 231 W-W powder here. Last sommer was using N-320 VihtaVuori Powder. Is it like WSL, No 2, Red Dot, HI-Skor 700X. T/C 14" 5,4gr 158 copperpladet re-sitzet cast bullet was quiet. (Ohler is kaputt!) 190gr cast bullet quiet too. VihtaVuori has new powder N- 32C (Silver Star) for cow boy shooting. I was s tarting N-32C 6,94gr for cheap BSA-pistol scope loading. It was very accurate. To day I was making 5,4gr loads and will go to tomorrow to shoot those loads.There is no loading guide for N-32C

Kauko, don't know what powders are available in your end of the world, but here is a chart showing powder equivalents. It is put out by the manufacturers of Australian powders, but some of those powders are marketed by Hogdon. For instance AR2208 and Varget are the same powder. This isn't the case for all the powders though.

Powder Equivalents

You should be able to get an idea of loads from this chart.

Cheers, Vince

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K.W.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

Thanks Vince. Your chart was very good. Never heart ADI or Vectan. Only Hodgdon can to find here, I hope. There in Finland it is Vihtavuori- "monopol". If some gunshop has voreigen powder to much, no more ViutaVuori powder. I think so. Maybe, I shall try something with some gun shop. Maybe New Vihtavuori N-32C is like AS 50 N .
.
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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

Hey Vince,
Good chart, saved it as a favorite in my reloading folder. That should help as we talk about reloading in different countries. I note that right at the top is N-320 for WW-231. Down on the list is N-120 for H-4227 and H-110.

I do note that they have several powders out of order though. H-110 and WW-296 are the same powder and #9 is somewhat similar, but 1680 is not the same as H-110 or H-4227. However, without any other guide, it is at least close enough to tell what powder in an area might work.

Example of what I am talking about based on a single cartridge (my design), the 30 Harm:
165 H FBSP 13 gr H-4227 Fps 1419 Cratered primers
165 H FBSP 17 gr A-1680 Fps 1257 Flat primers
165 H FBSP 16 gr H-110 Fps 1614 Cratered primers
150 R FBSP 13 gr A #9 Fps 1417 Cratered Primers

All max loads with same bullet, note the weight and velocity difference. So one could use the powder, but you would need to be careful not to get over pressure, if you did not have a guide for a specific powder/cartridge loading.

Thanks again.
Ed

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

Just a note on those "equivelent" powders.
The chart at the bottom says they are aproximately equivelent within 5%.
That means they are not necessarily the same powder, but they are close in the pressure that is generated with a maximum load and bullet - within 5%. The maximum load may be way different weights.
When I saw H110, H4227, IMR4227, W296, R123, AA1680 and N120 all listed as equivelent powders I was going to object - they aren't even all single base powders. I can see that they may be within 5% in pressure of each other with an appropriate charge of each.
Paul

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K.W.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

Professionals. What are you thinking abaut this? www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp
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oldwest
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

Hello from a new member. It seems awfully late to be adding to this thread but it still feels like the right place so I hope someone is still reading it. I am planning to purchase an original model TC Contender pistol frame. I have never owned a Contender but have had the opportunity and pleasure to fire one several times over the years. I have of course, kicked myself many time for not buying one back when they first came on the market.

My problem concerns the compatibility between frames and barrels. That problem is highlighted by the posts in this thread from 'roklok' and 'skb2706'. 'roklok' seems to say that all original and G2 barrels are compatibile with all original and G2 frames while 'skb2706' says that they 'will work' with $10 in parts and a few minutes work. There is obviously a huge difference between these two positions as far as I am concerned. It has nothing to do with the $10 or the few minutes either one. So far as I know by Thompson's standards 'fully compatible' barrels don't require any extra parts so while I do not have a problem with making it work I do have concerns as to possible effects on accuracy and maybe even some of the maximum strength specs of some of the parameters.

My problem is that I have seen this same type of info referenced in many areas but never with any technical detail to really explain just what the differences are or any possible effects. There are many barrels for sale but few people seem to have knowledge and expertise. This includes a lot of those holding FFL licenses today, since many of them seem to know about laws and prices but far too often little or nothing about firearms. As a purchaser and user in todays market I need the precise info as to fully compatible barrel types. I need to be able to look at a barrel that is offered for sale and tell for certain if it is compatibile with an original frame or not but I have yet to find a list of the specific criteria. Is the compatibility determined by Calibur, Model, Part Number, Serial Number or some combinatio of those? Surely someone must have a clear list or definition of the criteria. Without that info I am not even able to ask a seller for the information needed to determine suitability of a particular barrel. Being from a small rural area and NOT independently wealthy, buying only from a reputable qualified gunsmith/dealer is not is not a good answer since it is equivalent to saying 'just pour money on the problem'. If that were a practical answer for me I would not be spending the time trying to learn or write to the forum for information.

Not exactly a nutshell but that is my situation and the information I am looking for. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

Oldwest, I've been looking at Contenders too and my solution at this point is to just buy new "G2" stuff and not worry too much about the older barrels. I think, after talking to a T/C guy at a recent gun show, that the G2 frame can use the older barrels but the older frame can't use the new barrels without a modification.

This might help www.bullberry.com/TCbarrels.html

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skb2706
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

My only comments to add would be that I have owned every generation of Contender since the mid seventies. I have barrels dating back that far and I have barrels I bought as recently as six months ago. With little more than an allen wrench I can interchange them from a G2 frame to a Contender frame and back. I do it all the time.
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dballard
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

I have an original contender in .223 with 16" bull barrel and 4x50 scope and shoulder stock. Very nice. I am considering a 7.62x39 (lots of ammo out there) and have looked at Bullberry barrels. Pretty pricey.

I guess my question is along the same lines as some others. Since the old contenders are no longer manufactured, will a G2 barrel and some adjustments work for the older frames?

If so, how does this affect the ability to swap between the 2 barrels, old style and new G2? Is this a fiels can do or do I make the adjustments in my shop and go out to shoot?

I hope I am not rehashing something already laid to rest. I just don't think that a flat yea or nea was really laid down on this issue.

BTW - Does anyone have a 7.62x39 16" barrel for sale that will work with the old frames?

Thanks,
Dave in Iowa
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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

Welcome to HuntingNut oldwest. Grab a beermate, pull up a stump and sit awhile.

Has anybody thought of contacting TC Arms and asking their advice? Seeing as how they are the manufacturers I feel pretty certain that they would have the definitive answer.

Cheers, Vince

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skb2706
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

dballard wrote:
I have an original contender in .223 with 16" bull barrel and 4x50 scope and shoulder stock. Very nice. I am considering a 7.62x39 (lots of ammo out there) and have looked at Bullberry barrels. Pretty pricey.

I guess my question is along the same lines as some others. Since the old contenders are no longer manufactured, will a G2 barrel and some adjustments work for the older frames?

If so, how does this affect the ability to swap between the 2 barrels, old style and new G2? Is this a fiels can do or do I make the adjustments in my shop and go out to shoot?

I hope I am not rehashing something already laid to rest. I just don't think that a flat yea or nea was really laid down on this issue.

BTW - Does anyone have a 7.62x39 16" barrel for sale that will work with the old frames?

Thanks,
Dave in Iowa

TC Arms will tell you they will interchange, so will I. As I said I have every generation of TC that was made and barrels that date back to the early seventies and as new as last year. With only a very simple part change all are interchangable.

Unless you find a custom job barrel the 7.62x39 was never a factory offering from TC in a Contender. Oddly (I have no idea why) they suggest prssure limit problems...I suspect it has more to do with the cheap foriegn made ammo.
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

It must be something other than pressure or back-thrust issues because it has the same diameter at the base as the 357 maximum and uses the same pressure. Maybe it has to do with the steel cases - they may not seal as easily.

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So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
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NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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dballard
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: Thompson Center Contender Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. I have done some more searching and have seen similar posts on other forums about the russian ammo. I think this maybe due to the fact that this small cartridge must operate a gas system and that the russians are loading them hot.

However, wouldn't that also be true for 5.56 NATO rounds?

Anyway, I am settling on a 30-30 23" G2 rifle barrel. Prices for the barrels are around $235, some high, some low. 30-30 has always been a good round and can be handloaded with spire instead of flat nose for the contender. That will improve the performance.

Thanks for the help,
Dave in Iowa
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