hunterjoe21 wrote:

I guess the original question was lost in translation. In developing a load, would you trust the BULLET manufacturer's data, or the POWDER manufacturer's? I started my loads@ the lower end of the BULLET guys data, but would I be safe approaching the upper end of the POWDER guys data? In this situation, and merging both sets of load data (just 2 Wildswalker), anything between 32 gr and 39 gr of powder might seem acceptable. That seems to be an extreme powder range (at least to me), which is the reason for the question.

HJ......I would start at the lowest number regardless of whether it is the powder or bullet manufacturers. Having said that, as a general rule, I use only the powder manufacturers data.

Which ever way you choose to go, once you select your start point you then watch for signs of pressure in each subsequent change to your load. Shrpshtrjoe chooses .5 gr increments and wildswalker chooses .7% increments....I use .3gr increments. Its up to you how much you choose to increase your load each time, although I would suggest that the increments mentioned above are pretty good. Ensure you are checking for signs of pressure on every round fired (have I said that too much?)........ but I would be listening long and hard to those that have replied here 'cause they sure know what they are talking about.

IMHO I would suggest that a 7 grain difference between minimum and maximum load is excessive and is very good reason to seek info elsewhere, like from those who are experienced in loading the calibre that you are going to load.

As an aside, I have found that I get optimum accuracy with the powder I am using, Varget, at .5 of a grain lower than the powder manufacturers listed max.

Cheers, Vince

Vince wrote:

HJ......I would start at the lowest number regardless of whether it is the powder or bullet manufacturers. Having said that, as a general rule, I use only the powder manufacturers data. Which ever way you choose to go, once you select your start point you then watch for signs of pressure in each subsequent change to your load. Shrpshtrjoe chooses .5 gr increments and wildswalker chooses .7% increments....I use .3gr increments. Its up to you how much you choose to increase your load each time, although I would suggest that the increments mentioned above are pretty good. Ensure you are checking for signs of pressure on every round fired (have I said that too much?)........ but I would be listening long and hard to those that have replied here 'cause they sure know what they are talking about. IMHO I would suggest that a 7 grain difference between minimum and maximum load is excessive and is very good reason to seek info elsewhere, like from those who are experienced in loading the calibre that you are going to load. As an aside, I have found that I get optimum accuracy with the powder I am using, Varget, at .5 of a grain lower than the powder manufacturers listed max. Cheers, Vince

Thanks for the help, but I fear it is too late....

I have ended my relationship with 40 gr .224 bullets. I just couldn't get them close enough to the rifling to get decent groups. I DID get sub MOA accuracy (.715)with factory loaded 40's (40 gr Winchester Ballistic Silvertips), which is the reason I thought I could load them little buggers. I've moved up to the 50's, and have a box of 55's ready to go.....

7 grains of spread betwixt min and max ani't dick with some chamberings.

The orginal question would be more aptly put...Do I trust old data or do I trust new?

My first load book is nearly 25 years old and hardly ever used anymore beyond comparing old data to new. Componetry has changed enough over the years to make me wary of anything that "old".

Not too difficult to take several manufacturer's new data and compile an average. I tend to want to know what the max is and back off a certain amount then work back up.

Fooling with listed minimum loads as a starting point is pretty much a waste of time unless one likes to needlessly burn jingle and there's a longing for extended bench time.

I find two loads in a work up that can be deemed "accurate"....the first is a little less than half way up the load parameters and the second is a hair under what I've determined to be max.

I also tend to want a sharp rifle and lean heavily on the stiffer of the two charge weights.

Per translation of original question:

Data from the powder guys is generic at best. Bullet sellection from them is highly limited as they are concerned only with a general overview of a bullet weight using their powder. Seems they never test with the bullet I want to use. If forced to make a choice I'd go with the bullet guys..................

Dimitri wrote:

I'd use the lower side myself, however I do not reload yet. Once I start reloading I already know the load to use (since its going to be after I buy the M1A): LC Brass 42.5gr Reloader 13 (Don't go higher on this load & work up from a lower charge!) 175gr Serria Match King CCI #34 primers. Not a hunting load, a "fun" shooting rifle load. Dimitri

I myself don't golf nor ride the rodeo....

And would feel really funny about handing out advice on either................

wildswalker wrote:

7 grains of spread betwixt min and max ani't dick with some chamberings. Fooling with listed minimum loads as a starting point is pretty much a waste of time unless one likes to needlessly burn jingle and there's a longing for extended bench time. Per translation of original question: Data from the powder guys is generic at best. Bullet sellection from them is highly limited as they are concerned only with a general overview of a bullet weight using their powder. Seems they never test with the bullet I want to use. If forced to make a choice I'd go with the bullet guys..................

Good stuff...

I too tend to think that loads at the lower end of the powder scale are useless.....

I wanna punch holes through critters, not IN critters.

I can never seem to find a published load with the bullet,brass,powder,and primer I want to try.

wildswalker,

Well I may not have reloaded before but the only advice I've given was start at the low end of the spectrum from any of the manuals you get and work up, so its not really advice but saying you should always play it safe.

As for the load I mentioned in my last post, well thats a common load thats being used considering surplus M118LR ball is pretty hard to get now (it replicates it almost to the "T" so to speak).

Dimitri

Dimitri wrote:

wildswalker, Well I may not have reloaded before but the only advice I've given was start at the low end of the spectrum from any of the manuals you get and work up, so its not really advice but saying you should always play it safe. As for the load I mentioned in my last post, well thats a common load thats being used considering surplus M118LR ball is pretty hard to get now (it replicates it almost to the "T" so to speak). Dimitri

Whatever helps you sleep better..............

I'm going to go back to staying out of the reloading section ok Wildswalker ??

Dimitri

hunterjoe21 wrote:

wildswalker wrote: 7 grains of spread betwixt min and max ani't dick with some chamberings. Fooling with listed minimum loads as a starting point is pretty much a waste of time unless one likes to needlessly burn jingle and there's a longing for extended bench time. Per translation of original question: Data from the powder guys is generic at best. Bullet sellection from them is highly limited as they are concerned only with a general overview of a bullet weight using their powder. Seems they never test with the bullet I want to use. If forced to make a choice I'd go with the bullet guys.................. Good stuff... I too tend to think that loads at the lower end of the powder scale are useless..... I wanna punch holes through critters, not IN critters. I can never seem to find a published load with the bullet,brass,powder,and primer I want to try.

What if I were to tell you that you could work up a load that worked in (most) any case, with (most) any primer, with a strict adherance to a specific grain weight of a specific powder.....AND have it work for at least two different bullets of the same grain weight?

I'm talking upper end velocities and sub MOA accuracy, in a plain jane factory hunting rifle with no necessary mods beyond good glass and a sweet trigger.......................

Dimitri wrote:

I'm going to go back to staying out of the reloading section ok Wildswalker ?? Dimitri

Wouldn't hurt to stick around and learn a few things...

Seriously.....................

Because I use VihtaVuori-powder, always using VihtaVuori load data, when start load some new kalibers. K.

K.W. The best data to use is the bullet manufacturer's load data. If they have data using your powder. If not...Your powder manufacturer's data is the second best data. The third best data comes from general load manuals like Lyman's load data manuals. Either way you go, you always start from around 10% below maximum listed powder charge and work up. Especially if you can't find a listing using your particular bullet...

In working up any of my loads I use all three to get all the varied information I can get.

hunterjoe21 wrote:

I guess the original question was lost in translation. In developing a load, would you trust the BULLET manufacturer's data, or the POWDER manufacturer's? I started my loads@ the lower end of the BULLET guys data, but would I be safe approaching the upper end of the POWDER guys data? In this situation, and merging both sets of load data (just 2 Wildswalker), anything between 32 gr and 39 gr of powder might seem acceptable. That seems to be an extreme powder range (at least to me), which is the reason for the question.

Somewhat like Bushy, I would start low using the bullet manufactures data first while watching for high pressure signs. Then if I felt I could go further depending on pressure signs, I would and have done so very carefully, I would pursue using the powder manufactures data. This method has worked just fine in some of my firearms and others I could not reach any where near bullet manufactures max data. Like someone said, a load that works in one firearm may be too hot in another of the same caliber. There are sooooooo many variables.

Sorry to hear your giving up on those little 40gr bullets. I just thought I would throw my 2 cents in on the subject. If you really like the bullet you should try seating it deeper and not worry about trying to touch the lands. The reason I say this is because I currently have 2 rifles that will not shot their best until I set the bullet .030 and .035 off the lands. I've also had one in the past that worked it's best .040 off the lands. Some people refer to this as jumping the bullet. After doing some measuring and eyeballing, especially with bullets light for the caliber such as yours I have found very little of the bullets base is in the case neck. I feel this leads to inconsistent ignition of the powder charge. If you do give this a try I would really be interested in your results.

chambered221 wrote:

Sorry to hear your giving up on those little 40gr bullets. I just thought I would throw my 2 cents in on the subject. If you really like the bullet you should try seating it deeper and not worry about trying to touch the lands. The reason I say this is because I currently have 2 rifles that will not shot their best until I set the bullet .030 and .035 off the lands. I've also had one in the past that worked it's best .040 off the lands. Some people refer to this as jumping the bullet. After doing some measuring and eyeballing, especially with bullets light for the caliber such as yours I have found very little of the bullets base is in the case neck. I feel this leads to inconsistent ignition of the powder charge. If you do give this a try I would really be interested in your results.

I think that at some point I'll get back to the 40's, but for now I think heavier bullets and a more traditional approach are in order. Once I have a more complete powder inventory I'll get them to work.