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toddco Rookie Member
Joined: Sep 09, 2009 Posts: 20
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:12 am Post subject: Annealing Brass |
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Does anyone have a decisive method on how to anneal brass? Also, has anyone studied how much it improves accuracy?
Thanks,
Toddco
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chambered221 Super Member
Joined: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 3455 Location: Lost for good !!!
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass |
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It seems to me that a lot of re-loaders refuse to accept the "decisive method" due to the expense involved.
If you were to surf the benchrest forums you'll find a host of threads and articles that mimic the link I've posted.
www.lasc.us/CartridgeC...ealing.htm
_________________ Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington |
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SingleShotLover Super Member
Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 1005 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass |
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Annealing isn't usually thought of as an accuracy enhancement as much as a way to make brass last longer. Each time a piece of brass is worked by either sizing in your dies or even firing in a chamber it gets a little bit harder and thus more brittle. This is called "work hardening" and can substantially shorten case life. Annealing extends the working life of brass by returning it to its normal softer and more elastic state. It is particularly important if forming cases from another caliber as it eases the forming process and helps limit cracks and stress.
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sniper Super Member
Joined: Aug 18, 2005 Posts: 735 Location: Utah
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass |
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I'm not sure if it is an accuracy enhancer, or is more to extend the life of the brass, but the latest issue of Handloader has an article, recommending a system by a friend of the writer.(I think)
No info on where to buy, or how much, and it does use two propane torches.
Despite John Barnsness' article in the same publication some time ago, which used a plumber's candle and a wet towel, there doesn't appear to be any way to simply and inexpen$ively anneal cases.
But, in real life, how often is it really necessary?
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fnuser Super Member
Joined: Dec 23, 2008 Posts: 914 Location: S.W. Missouri, U.S.A.
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Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass |
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I simply put an inch of water in a 9x13 cake pan using a mapp gas torch i go back and forth on the necks until they are cherry in a dim room (which usually puts the "rainbow" pretty close to where lapua puts it) then knock the brass over with the tip of the torch. After a little practice you can figure out how many you can do at a time. The water prevents the casehead from being annealed and quenches the brass. the depth of the water needs to cover the brass completely when it is on its side. I usually use this on 6mm-.284 Winchester brass formed from .284 winchester as it has been necked sized several times by the first firing-resizing cycle. however when 6.5 norma is available this is unneccesary.
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toddco Rookie Member
Joined: Sep 09, 2009 Posts: 20
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Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass |
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So after reading every article i could find on annealing brass, here are my conclusions. Brass anneals best when you get the necks to 650 degrees f.
This takes about 4-6 seconds with a slim flame propane torch. I put each brass inside a deep socket that i had in my drill. While turning the case in the drill i applied the heat to the neck. In order to tell when i had the neck at the right temp. i purchased a temp. stick. Actually i bought 2, 1 for 650 degrees and 1 for 450 degrees. To use these sticks you heat the brass, touch the brass with the stick and if stick melts you have reached temp. After a little practice i became very proficient. I did some by touching the 650 stick on the neck and some by touching the 450 just lower than the shoulder. They seem to be annealed very well and i look forward to shooting some of them to see if i get consistent velocity from them now.
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SingleShotLover Super Member
Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 1005 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass |
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toddco wrote: |
They seem to be annealed very well and i look forward to shooting some of them to see if i get consistent velocity from them now. |
Not likely that annealing will cure velocity fluctuation problems. This is the first you have mentioned that. What kind of problems are you having?
_________________ If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!
The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.
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toddco Rookie Member
Joined: Sep 09, 2009 Posts: 20
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:50 am Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass |
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I am trying to achieve consistent velocity. I read that once annealed, brass will be more consistent throughout the neck, which in turn should hold the bullet with the same pressure all the way around, helping in consistent velocities. With consistent velocities accuracy should improve. Thoughts?
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chambered221 Super Member
Joined: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 3455 Location: Lost for good !!!
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass |
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Annealing brass is low on the list of things to do in achieving a consistent velocity !!!
Inconsistent neck thickness, and primer pockets are more likely the issue when dealing with the case itself.
What are you getting in the way of extreme spread and standard deviation ???
_________________ Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington |
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5002 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass |
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Ive never heard of annealing used for an accuracy enhancer. Its used to "preserve" the brass, i.e. make it last longer. I'm with Chambered, it would be awfully low on my list of things to try if I was looking for more accuracy.
_________________ Mike
"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle |
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toddco Rookie Member
Joined: Sep 09, 2009 Posts: 20
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass |
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Sometimes velocity is within 3-5fps, other times it is 50-60- fps. all of my brass is the same, the same weight, the same lot, the same length. The only thing i haven't done is turn the necks, which for my factory rifle is probably a waste of time?
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Donut Slayer Super Member
Joined: Jun 27, 2007 Posts: 594 Location: Pensacola, Florida
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PaulS Super Member
Joined: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass |
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60 fps variation, while higher than I like is still only 2% variation.
There are a number of variables that can affect velocity.
Barometric pressure, temperature, cartridge expansion, charge variations, and gun temperatures are a few. If you full length size then try some new brass and after the first firing just neck size to see if the velocities are more consistant.
_________________ Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
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Dawgdad Super Member
Joined: Feb 08, 2006 Posts: 1065 Location: On the Prairie
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Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass |
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I have just cruised through three web sites that I visit frequently... All three have threads related to annealing!!
The consensus form the other boards.. One a varmint hunting site the other a competion rifle site, is that for ultimate accuracy and repeatability annealing and neck turning combined will lower your SD and ES and improve accuracy. It will also extend the case life so for which ever reason you do it... the benefits have a bonus.
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toddco Rookie Member
Joined: Sep 09, 2009 Posts: 20
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Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass |
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I guesss that i should also add that i only neck size my brass, it has been fired more than once. I use the rcbs electronic scale and every time i check it with my balance beam it is accurate. These variations come from the same shooting day within the same groups. Is it possible that this powder/bullet combo is something that i should change up?
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