I have some new 250 grain bullets I am going to test on the range and will keep you posted!!!

The scope wasn't tight enough and moved backas far as it will go. That was a waste of 7 rounds. I also had the first two shoots with a BIG hesitation. I took the breech plug out and re-cleaned it and that cured that. I'm using 100 grains of 209 powder for the 250 grain bullets. I tried normal shock Wave 250 grain bullets with their sabots. I tried a couple with Tradations sabots. For both of these I had to use 'Barrel butter" to get them down the barrel. I used some e-z-load Shock Wave sabots and they loaded way easier and their accuracy was the same as everything else. I tried the 3 e-z-load bullets from Barnes (250 grain) and had the same results. Every combo seemed to be about a 4 inch group. Every shot I took with the Shoick Wave sabots got easier, where every Barnes e-z bullet loaded a little harder, like it was cleaning the barrel. The barnes sabots stay nice and round where the Shock Wave sabots look like they have been partially melted.

The most accurate bullets so far have been the 290 grain Barnes TMZ's using barrel butter to get them down the barrel. I'm pretty sure I could load one in a tree stand... but just barely. But i haven't tried them with my new scope yet.

I'm flying for the next 3 days.

iowafarmboy wrote:

What do you think the odds are that Traditions will get me a new barrel? I was hopeful when I ran the first bullet down the barrel about 6 to 8 inches. I used a wooden dowel to push it back out. It measured about .500 to .501. The barrel grooves look good. So I do another bullet, and as soon as it gets about 10 inches down, there is little resistance. Then it gets to the other (breech) end and I'm afraid the bullet will get stuck it's going so hard. I pushed it through the breech end and it measured .495 -.496. Since both ends are smaller than the middle, there is no way to tell what that measurement is. A wooden dowel doesn't weigh much, and in the middle of the barrel, all it took was raising the dowel a few inches and then dropping it. That was enough to push the bullet down till it rapidly got a lot smaller. So that explains why bullets are hard to seat. But it doesn't explain why it was so hard to load those Barnes bullets. Isn't a 50 cal barrel supposed to be .500 ? That also explains why I got the best results with the easy load sabots.

With a 0.005" constriction I'm surprised that it groups at all. I'd firelap the barrel. Please read this tech note written by Marshall Stanton of Beartooth Bullets.
Beartooth Bullets Tech Note

I've looked into having the barrel worked on professionally. It would be cheaper to get a new barrel... IF I could get some info from Tradations. After deer season is over, and if I STILL haven't heard back from Tradations, I'll send the barrel out and have a pro look at it and see what they say and what it will cost. Then I'll decide if I go with a decent company (new rifle) or stay with Tradations and do the barrel over to what other gun owners already have.

I did a little testing. Clean barrel on my Traditions 50 cal. I have a wooden dowel that is just a thou or so smaller than a bullet. And I used a rifle rod with no end on it. I used a Shock Wave e-z-sabot, a Traditions sabot, and a Barnes sabot. I want to see how each sabot "fits". I used the rod first, so that no pressure was applied to the edges of each sabot. This will give me an idea of what the diameter is on each sabot. The S-W e-z sabot went down almost as hard as if I was loading a bullet. The Traditions sabot went down with just the weight of the rod, and the Barnes was the hardest of the 3 to push down. So the base of the Traditions must be a little smaller in diameter than the other two.

Now I put the wooden dowel down in the sabot, just like a bullet. The S-W e-z sabot loaded exactly like it would with the real bullet in it. The Traditions sabot loaded hard. So most of the pressure it takes to load a Traditions sabot is because the bullet pushes out the sides of the sabot.

And finally I tried the Barnes. The sabot grabs the grooves and turns the wooden dowel as it goes down the barrel. You can't stop it from turning. I tried the test again with exactly the same results. That Barnes sabot really grabs the grooves.

In my rifle, with real bullets, I have to use a lubricant to get both the Traditions and Barnes bullets down my barrel. The S-W e-z load sabot does just what you would think, it loads VERY EASILY. I think my 10 year old grandson could load a e-z sabot. I weigh a little over 200 pounds and it's all I can do to load a Traditions sabot in MY BARREL. The Barnes bullet is a little easier, but my friend who weighs about 130 can't load it by himself.

It never hurts to ask. Green Mountain says they don't make custom barrels. Still no answer from Traditions.

Vint2. Do you live anywhere near Postville? I may be going over there on a regular basis for work.

I am in the Decorah area. You can contact me personally and we will go from there. My wife is a very private lady!!!!

I switched to 300 grain bullets (used cheaper Shock Waves for practice) with the BH 209 powder and 209 WW209 shotgun primers. These are the "normal" sabots, not e-z-load. I still will use Barnes when hunting, this is just practice.

One trial shot and I can't reload. Re-clean after emptying everything out. Remember, I have a tight barrel... UNDERSIZED to you and me. So now I take one dry swab, using both sides, and swab after shooting. The swab doesn't look any better than with 777 powder, but no crud ring and a LOT less crud on the breech plug. Load my 120 grains of BH 209 powder. So then I use one pre-moistened patch on both sides with Barrel Butter. I load the bullet with some, but not too much, resistance, and make sure it seats correctly. Puff--- no bang. Wait 30 seconds, then reload primer. Works 2nd time. Get decent results, but not spectacular. 3 inch groups at 100 yards. I think the last time I used Barnes the accuracy improved. But I had 3 more times where the primer didn't ignite the powder on the first try. Damn!

I tried the e-z load sabots with a dirty barrel and they actually loaded much harder than the regular sabots did with the barrel butter. I tried some cleaning the barrel AFTER loading the bullet with one dry swab, using both sides, and I couldn't see any marked improvement.

So I'll use this technique for hunting. I'll shot a half dozen Barnes bullets to make sure they are accurate. I'm going out 2nd Shotgun season with my son-in-law and his family... they are all shotgun people. It's their land so what can I say? :-)

Guess I'm having trouble following all this...

What did you finally decide to hunt with???

The 295 grain Barnes bullets are what I'll use to hunt with. But they are too expensive for me to practice with. I have tried several e-z load combination and loose accuracy, especially with ANY 250 grain bullet.

Note... when I shoot 250 grain bullets, they not only spread out, but the bullet holes are often ragged, like the bullets aren't flying straight. The 300 grain bullets (3 differnt brands) have a tighter circle, and make nice neat holes.

My barrel is so undersized I have to use something to lubricate the barrel to get any normal bullet / sabot combo to load. I have tried several combinations of e-z-load sabots but with not so good results.

So now what I do, is load my rifle and keep it in the car outside over night. In the morning I take it to the range and fire one shot. That's as close as I can get to hunting conditions. Using the Barnes bullets I'm getting very good results. I don't know if it's my breech plug or what, but I've had a lot of misfires with Blackhorn powder in my rifle. So for hunting this year I'm using 777 loose powder.

I'm hoping I won't need to re-load in the field while hunting, but if I do, because of the 777 powder, I'll use one patch moistened with saliva (both sides) with 2 dry patches (both sides), load the loose powder, use a pre-seasoned patch with Barrel Butter down to about 1/2 inch above the powder, load the bullet, then swab with one more dry patch (bth sides) to get the barrel butter out of the barrel.

Seems like a lot, but I can get very tight groups using this method. I bought this rifle used and it was half price. Now I see why. But I've got it to work for me. I have to use a couple extra steps in loading, so I take EXTRA CARE in shooting, as I know what ever I shoot at, if I miss, will be 3 counties away before I can get it re-loaded :-)

Even with all these dry patches I'm using, every one has residue on them. So I'm not going till a patch comes back spotless.

When I used Blackhorn Powder, I only used one dry patch (both sides) before loading the powder, so it really speeded up the re-loading process. But I had too many mis-fires or hung shots.

You may have one of two problems with your misfires. Either you need to buy a hotter primer or you need to get your breech plug reamed out a tiny bit. Your flashhole should be at least .035 and can go upto .038.

I use safety wire from the airport. I don't know the exact diameter. I use the 2 larger diameter wires, smallest first, to clean it out. I'm afraid to use a drill bit and have it break off inside the breech hole. With safety wire, I can clean the breech hole without taking the breech out.

There is no doubt that the Blackhorn powder burns MUCH cleaner than the 777 powder. That REALLY SHOWS UP CLEANING THE BREECH PLUG. It's night and day. However, the first shot of the day, with a newly cleaned breech plug, is the one shot most likely to misfire or especially hang fire. This would be my "money shot" hunting. I don't have a gun shop in the area that carries any Tradations parts. If I had an extra breech plug, I could get a little more aggressive cleaning.

When I use safety wire, I use a length 18 inches long. After I get it started and can grab the short end with pliers, I put all kinds of bends and kinks in the wire then pull it through. I can easily see through the hole when I'm done. I can put drops of water or solvent through it and it comes out clean.

I'll look for a .035 drill bit. I know there is a WORLD of difference in the condition of the breech plug now with my cleaning than it was when I bought the rifle. I was amazed as to how much crud was in there.

A hotter primer like CCI or Federal might solve your misfire probem.

I bought some Federals at my mom's and I can get the CCI's at home when I return. I'll try them both and see if they help.

50 cal Traditions Pursuit II XLT with a Nikon Omega 3x9 scope. This is the 3rd scope. It's brand new. It was put on professionally. It's STILL moving in the mount. It's very tight. With each scope I've had the same problems with accuracy. The mount is the only thing that is common to my problem. Is there a mount that is better than the rest for muzzleloaders? I'm getting a new mount this weekend. Any recommendations?