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Best quality brass??Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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dhc4ever Super Member
Joined: May 26, 2011 Posts: 2944 Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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Do tell.
_________________ Pete
Dont do anything you wont like explaining to the paramedics.............. |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15721 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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_________________ Cheers, Vince
Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done) |
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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11393 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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I didn't say anything...Just mentioned you knew all about rifle bolts,
_________________ I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...
DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote... |
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Suzanne Super Member
Joined: Jun 27, 2009 Posts: 3323 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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More Mr. Bushmaster?
Suz
need some
salt too.....
_________________ May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams. |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15721 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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_________________ Cheers, Vince
Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done) |
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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:35 am Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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Have been away and just got around to reading the complete thread. All my rifle cases are sized to give a slight resistance to lock up of the bolt. This includes rimmed cases such as the 35 Remington. I suspect, but do not know for sure, that the bolt face and case are a close fit. I wish I could say that I do this to improve accuracy but the truth is I do it to reduce case stretch and therefore hopefully increase brass life.
While I have some premium brass, most of mine is regular stuff such as Remington, Winchester and some military surplus. I tried several annealing methods but finally gave it up as It was just too difficult to be consistent.
_________________ La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle) |
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lesterg3 Super Member
Joined: Nov 30, 2008 Posts: 1328 Location: Dixie
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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OK, so now I am becoming really confused and have begun questioning everything I have learned in earning two advanced degrees in metallurgy and physics, although Dee would tell you that confusion about people is not a new condition and sometimes she’s surprised that I can even breathe when talking to them.
I have been advised by an obviously highly experienced, educated, and knowledgeable contributor to HN that upon ignition of a cartridge’s percussion cap’s soft steel face by the massive .050” to .080” diameter firing pin that the spring loaded massive firing pin will hold the cartridge in place and that case under up to 60,000 PSI will immediately expand diametrically and not longitudinally to form fit the chamber and prevents any gas escape and any possible rearward movement or stretch of the cartridge and that under no circumstance could the base of the cartridge come into contact with the face of the bolt and therefore the cartridge could not assume any out of square condition from the bolt face.
So, I am curious about why we have bolt handles that lock in place and LOCKING LUGS on the cartridge end of the bolt and would really like somebody to tell me why rifle manufacturers go to so much expense to create a bolt that is immobile to rearward movement, I’d rather they spend those dollars on better barrels and better barrel action interfaces.
Heck, if the cartridge form fits to the chamber and the cartridge only stretches towards the bore then we don’t need a bolt of any kind and could just use a nail to poke the cap. I am also curious about whether I should continue to believe anything that Hornady has to say about cartridge ballistics, reloading, or anything else they sell. They are obviously wrong too, and if they are wrong about this I would question any other advice they proffer about reloading.
So, since I am so ignorant about, metallurgy, physics, ballistics and rifles I feel I need to stop shooting, hunting and reloading, heck if I don’t understand the basics I could be dangerous to an innocent bystander. Please somebody explain all this to me.
_________________ "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson
"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
NRA Life Member
Vietnam War Vet 68-69 |
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SingleShotLover Super Member
Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 1005 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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If you re-read the info more closely, you will see that the case moves rearward at the moment of bullet movement causing an intense thrust against the bolt-face. Note that the bullet is in motion at that point. The lugs are to prevent the bolt from becoming part of the shooter's face.
But then one can always make the case that simple logic proves that airplanes can't fly.
_________________ If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!
The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.
SSL |
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Suzanne Super Member
Joined: Jun 27, 2009 Posts: 3323 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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OOOooooo well done Lester!! You're not just a fisherman you're a long-liner. Reminds me of a conversation I had with our office's retirement administrator. We got a copy of how our asset allocations were distributed and I noticed our highest percentage was in bonds. Questions? Yeah, doesn't the present low interest rate (in our banking system) tend to devalue the dollar? Yes (he said with tons of explanation about dollar valuation). So why are we heavily vested in bonds? Well, I wouldn't call it heavy or strong, we're evening it out in the long run, being conservative as we go through the year... and blah blah blah... The thing is, that's my retirement money, I want aggressive, not conservative income. Did we make a killing this year on stocks? Well no we had a strategy for a falling economy that we used two years ago and this year it just didn't turn out that way. So why do we pay you to manage our retirement?
I made more on the stock market this year than I have in the last 5 years and this guy is so behind.....it's his freekin job, nothing else, and it's our money slowly slipping through the cracks....my boss is a dunderhead and needs to educate himself on investing.
Sorry for the rant Lester, just wanted to swab your bruises, there are some that need mental hearing aids and some that have no batteries at all. We can only hope they don't end up with us eternally. Now that would just suk.
Suz
_________________ May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams. |
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lesterg3 Super Member
Joined: Nov 30, 2008 Posts: 1328 Location: Dixie
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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SSLover, Thanks partner, but I don't need to re-read anything. What you explained was my original point EXACTLY. But, some folks don't believe it.
Thanks Suz.
Regarding your retirement fund, I took everything I had out of the control of banks and fund managers several years ago, thankfully I only lost about a third during our economic debacle.
So let's say (hypothetically) that I'm a fund manager and I have 10,000 folks depending on me to manage their money but only one person who signs my check and gives me bonuses for placating the 10,000 who are at my whim, who shall I be faithful to? You cannot depend on others for your future, it is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors. Sorry about your Boss.
_________________ "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson
"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
NRA Life Member
Vietnam War Vet 68-69 |
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Suzanne Super Member
Joined: Jun 27, 2009 Posts: 3323 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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Yeah wish I could do the same, but we have the boss paying matching funds to what we give, along with profit sharing so you can't beat that, but once I decide to quit or "retire" I'm very prepared to invest. Anyone who's thinkin about retirement better be well versed in the stock market. It's easy to do and your motivation is money.....more money!
Suz
_________________ May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams. |
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TRBLSHTR Super Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1071 Location: Lower 48's-left coast(near portlandia)
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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11393 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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Just to help with your brain throb, TRBLSHTR. I use the shoulder of a .30-30 (mod 94) to head space on rather then the case rim.
_________________ I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...
DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote... |
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PaulS Super Member
Joined: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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All my rifles (the ones that use bottle-neck cases) are kept long enough to headspace on the shoulder. It doesn't matter if it is a bolt or a break-open action, they all get the same treatment.
The case body and neck always expand to the chamber wall but after they are glued to the wall by the pressure then the case head moves rearward (if there is any space) which stretches the brass lengthwise. That is what causes case head separation. If there is a slight "crush-fit" to the case in the chamber then it has no place to expand. (unless there is enough pressure to cause the chamber to expand) With that very slight crush-fit my brass will outlast me. I can't swear it increases accuracy but in conjunction with a partially sized neck I will swear that it increases accuracy in my guns with me shooting them.
_________________ Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads |
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Suzanne Super Member
Joined: Jun 27, 2009 Posts: 3323 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Best quality brass?? |
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How do you size a rimmed case on the shoulder, what's the method? I was thinking about doing that on my rolling block rifle because of the scarcity of cases for 8x58rD, I have inconsistent rim thicknesses. If I could bump the shoulder up then I could headspace on the shoulder. Don't know how to do it though.
Suz
_________________ May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams. |
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