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224 Valkyrie
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Slim - If you need an accurate magazine length load... I have not been able to outshoot the Hornady 75BTHP Black ammo. If you ever are in a pinch and need some for a match under 800 yards... that stuff shoots.

I have a 6.5 twist Kreiger barreled AR throated to be 0.010" off of the factory Federal SMK 90gr. as you would expect it shoots those well but not as well as it does the 88 ELD and a Berger 85.5.

I have also shot the Factory 88 ELD's well in this rifle to 1000. I tried a lot of the same powders and determined that RE-17 works best for me with the 88ELD and the Berger 85.5's. Those are shooting 0.5 MOA for me out to 500 and I was planning on shooting a lot of 1000 yard matches this spring but Covid got in the way. I am running 27.9gr of RE-17 with the ELD at 2770 fps with OAL set the same as a factory load. I tried a jump test and sub magazine length gave the best groups... That is why I always check from 0.010" jammed to 0.130" jump. This load stays super sonic to 1300 yards.

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Last edited by Dawgdad on Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Dawgdad, thanks for the info. Wow, you are using 1.1 grains more of R17 than I do and 200 fps faster.

Do you have a 24" barrel?

What brass are you using?

What COAL increment do you use to test jump with? 0.030" I have been trying 0.015" shorter COALs if I don't get the group size I'm looking for at 0.010" off the lands.

I may start testing 0.005" into the lands after the experience I just had with my .223 Wylde chamber were I had a bullet loaded at 2.260" that was touching the lands and grouping 1/2moa or less.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

I am using Starline brass and just processed some Hormady i had from factory. Yes it is a 24” barrel. I start with the Berger recommended 0.030” steps the. Tweak 0.010 either side of the best load looking for the tightest group.

I never had a load shoot well jammed in a Wylde 223. I have used 2.235” with 77’s even. Same type of jump test start at mag length then push back until you get pressure signs. I got tighter rounder groups with Nosler 77’s and Hormady 75’s. SMK and Lapua didn’t care. Shot well at all lengths. Even the 80 gr single load rounds usually group best 0.030-0.040”. Jump.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Slim- I had a fat finger in my first post. I am running 2770 fps with the ELD at 27.9 gr. 100fps /gr is more reasonable....

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

LOL, thanks for returning my sanity, Dawgdad.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Dawgdad, your charge weight is 0.9 grains above published load data. I may look to go higher. I had noticed what I thought were pressure signs but I can recheck. Maybe more jump will help. I have plenty of freebore to play with.

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"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Ok, Dawgdad (and other HuntingNuts). I finally had a break from work and good weather to do a 1000-yard ballistic coefficient (BC) assessment for the 3 long-range bullets I’m shooting in my 22” ARP 1:6.5 224 Valkyrie; the 88gr Hornady ELD-M, 95gr Sierra SMK, and lately the 85.5 Berger Hybrid. I’ve wanted to do this for some time to verify the BCs I’ve derived from the data collected using a LabRadar doppler chronograph. This unit tracks bullet velocity every 3 feet within 100 yards of the muzzle. The ELD-M’s derived BC has matched Hornady’s advertised BC but the derived/tested BC for Sierra's 95gr SMK has been significantly less than what Sierra has advertised. The derived BCs for the 85.5 Berger Hybrid has been a bit lower than what Berger has advertised. So the objective of this test was to see if the bullet’s BCs improved after they go to “sleep” down range.

For this test, the 88gr Hornady ELD-M was used as the baseline for comparison and data analysis. The plan was to shoot 8-shot groups at 1000 yards and compare vertical point of impact (POI) to calculated trajectory data. These calculations were done using JBM’s on-line app along with forecast weather data. I had enough bullets loaded to do a 3-shot group at 100 yards to establish scope zero for each bullet and still have 8 shots for the 1000-yard BC assessment. You may notice that there are only 7 impacts for the 88gr Hornady ELD-M. The plastic tip broke off one of the ELD-M bullets which was not fired. I have never had this happened with a ballistic tip before.

At the range, a 6-foot wide and 5-foot tall piece of cardboard was used as a target board (saved from a water heater installation several years ago). Pictures of the test set-up and target board are below. Windage was adjusted to offset the bullet impacts trying to shoot the 85.5 Berger Hybrid (yellow) on the left, 88gr Hornady ELD-M (red) in the middle, and 95gr Sierra SMK (green) on the right. You can see that I didn’t compensate well enough for the varying tail-wind (5-9 mph) that was quartering from the left shoulder. The air temperature was 78 degrees F. Load data and recorded muzzle velocities are below. Caution, these powder charges may not be safe in your rifle. Start 10% lower and work up.

85.5gr Berger Hybrid – 2856 fps (28.1gr 2000MR) [BC 0.524, 0.500 Tested] – 2.380” COAL
88gr Hornady ELD-M – 2702 fps (26.8gr R17) [BC 0.545, 0.545 Tested] – 2.355” COAL
95gr Sierra SMK – 2652 fps (26.7gr W760) [BC 0.600, 0.545 Tested] – 2.365” COAL



1000-yd test set-up.jpg
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_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


Last edited by slimjim on Wed May 06, 2020 4:35 am; edited 5 times in total
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

There could be several ways to look at and analyze these results, however, there are a lot of variables involved. I found that the data aligned and the results made sense when the 88 ELD-M was used as the benchmark and the analyzed kept relative to the ELD-M. Note, this is collected data/real-world results but this doesn’t mean that your rifle will have the same outcome with these bullets.



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_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


Last edited by slimjim on Sat May 02, 2020 4:10 am; edited 6 times in total
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Here are my conclusions and lessons-learned from this test and associated data.

• First, using velocity decay from LabRadar data inside 100 yards accurately derives bullet BC for that specific velocity range. BC (G1) may change some as velocity decays down range but the BCs derived using the Lab Radar get me on-target.
• Bullets must be fully stabilized with enough twist to achieve their full BC potential. Either the Sierra advertised BC of 0.600 (G1) requires a faster twist (or velocity) than 1:6.5 to achieve its full potential or its BC is less than advertised. Note, their 90 SMK fell way short of advertised BC even when fully stabilized. As temperatures rise, the 95 SMK may become more stable and see a BC improvement.
• A trajectory drop analysis for the slowest and fastest bullets within each group provided interesting results (min-max MV delta). You can see that this muzzle velocity variation accounted for the vertical spread of the ELD-M and SMK showing the importance of achieving a low standard deviation for your handload's muzzle velocity. (How is it that MV Std Dev was directly related to vertical spread at 1000 yards?) The 85.5 Berger Hybrid was not a close match like the other two. It was shot last. The wind had picked up slightly and the heat waves/shimmer was a bit more noticeable which may have contributed to its increased vertical dispersion compared to its muzzle velocity variation. There is more to learn here and a retest will be forthcoming.
• I need to go back and continue load development for the 88 ELD-M and 85.5 Hybrid. I wasn’t expecting these results with the 85.5 Hybrid. It has been the most accurate inside 300 yards compared to any other of my handloads. The 3-shot group sizes when zeroing at 100 yards were; 85.5 Hybrid (5/8"), 88 ELD-M (1 1/4"), and 95 SMK (1"). Berger recommends a minimum twist of 1:8 for their new 85.5 Hybrid. I’m interested to learn if the 1:6.5 twist is too fast for the 85.5 Hybrid (maybe stabilized too much to let the nose fall through after its apex). I’ll have an ARP Valkyrie barrel with 1:7.7 twist to compare with shortly.

For the short-term, I will use the 95 SMK as my go-to long-range round for now. I have to go back and rework my loads for the 85.5 Berger Hybrid and 88gr Hornady ELD-M to provide better accuracy and consistency. I enjoy testing like this so I have more fun in-store for me.

Please share your observations, comments, and conclusions. It is always helpful and insightful.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


Last edited by slimjim on Wed May 06, 2020 4:42 am; edited 10 times in total
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Vince
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Slim, you never cease to amaze me with your attention to detail and real world testing of bullets that are in everyday use by everyone.

I’m looking forward to your next round of tests mate...even though I don’t use these calibres or bullets.

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