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chambered221 Super Member
Joined: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 3455 Location: Lost for good !!!
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:39 am Post subject: Re: New brass........ |
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Once again the same definition for 2 different words are being applied !!!
Accuracy has nothing to do with group size, it’s about placing a single shot where you want to.
The target might be another bullet hole on a target as in bench-rest shooting or it might be the lungs of a deer.
Either way the size of the target is irrelevant, it doesn’t matter how big or small it is. The important thing is to hit it where you want for an accurately placed shot.
The consistency deals with how many times you can hit your target with a series of shots. Once again it has nothing to do with the size of a group.
What needs to be done is define what the expectation is !!!
Then by testing as many rounds as you see fit, you can determine, if it meets the required expectation.
If it meets or exceeds the expectation then it can be considered accurate and consistent.
This applies for working up a load ( I need a ½ inch group ) or sighting in at the range ( to hit a 1 inch target ) at 100 yards.
_________________ Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
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stovepipe Super Member
Joined: Sep 25, 2008 Posts: 4877 Location: Pine, Az.
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:43 am Post subject: Re: New brass........ |
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I think your assessment of consistency is very accurate, Mr. 221!!!
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chambered221 Super Member
Joined: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 3455 Location: Lost for good !!!
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:59 am Post subject: Re: New brass........ |
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_________________ Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington |
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stovepipe Super Member
Joined: Sep 25, 2008 Posts: 4877 Location: Pine, Az.
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: New brass........ |
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gelandangan Super Member
Joined: May 07, 2006 Posts: 6403 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: New brass........ |
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Boy it is good to have an accurately consistent explanation of consistently accurate gun.
_________________ A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
Do - Not try!
gelandangan.weebly.com/ |
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whittling Super Member
Joined: Apr 21, 2008 Posts: 586 Location: Texas (home state is Mass)
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: New brass........ |
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_________________ Molon labe!
Service, honor and courage, without these a warrior is nothing. |
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fnuser Super Member
Joined: Dec 23, 2008 Posts: 914 Location: S.W. Missouri, U.S.A.
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: New brass........ |
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Grumulkin is cheating. he is using Nosler brass which clearly states that it is weight sorted and prepped. The ones I have are already trimmed to length, chamfered and sized. So much for using "factory" brass the only thing left to do is turn the necks or if you're really bug holing uniform the primer pockets which to my discerning eye are probably done also. not the neck turning. I'm sorry but if you're going to make a point about how little case prep makes in your load you'll have to use some less prepped cases.
_________________ N.R.A. Endowment Member |
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wiersy111 Super Member
Joined: May 13, 2009 Posts: 2376 Location: Central Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: New brass........ |
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I'm going to make an assumption that you are trying to hit the nice orange dot. Now if both loads are identical with the exception that the brass was not trimmed or sized and one shot high then I must ask how you think this is accurate. I am with Chambered in the definition of accurate the bullet impacting your point of aim (where you wanted to hit). If you were trying to hit the orange dot your untrimmed brass hit high so I would not consider this accurate. Nice group but not where you intended. The 2nd group was placed where you intended to hit repeatedly, this is accurate and it is also consistent because they are tight. Seeing how the only difference in the loads is the trimming I believe if the cases were trimmed and sized to the same specs as the re sized brass the shot group would have been placed with the 2nd group. I will give it to you the first group is consistent. I stand corrected I guess you can have consistency with out accuracy.
As far as the number of shots I was asking you a simple question. It appears to me that you shoot the traditional three shots.
There is a definite difference in the definition of accurate and consistent. I still believe that you cannot be accurate if you are not consistent. Without hitting your point of aim (accurate) you will not hit you point of aim during a series of shots. (not consistent) Hitting your point of aim (accurate) will enable you to hit your point of aim repeatedly during a series of shots (consistent).
I am an M1A1 Tank Master Gunner and have consistently shot expert with military small arm for almost 20 years. If I can find the manual I will post the chapter that explains the critical relevance of consistent components that make up any round of ammunition. Weather it is a tank round or a small arms round.
No matter how anyone reloads I will not change my mind about making my brass as consistent as possible. I'm not here to ruffle any feather and have enjoyed this discussion.
_________________ A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America " for an amount of "up to and including my life."
US ARMY RETIRED
The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson.
Being "Over the Hill" is much better then being under it! |
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wiersy111 Super Member
Joined: May 13, 2009 Posts: 2376 Location: Central Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: New brass........ |
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Thank you fnuser !
_________________ A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America " for an amount of "up to and including my life."
US ARMY RETIRED
The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson.
Being "Over the Hill" is much better then being under it! |
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Grumulkin Super Member
Joined: Apr 16, 2007 Posts: 365 Location: Central Ohio
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: New brass........ |
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fnuser wrote: |
Grumulkin is cheating. he is using Nosler brass which clearly states that it is weight sorted and prepped. |
Not so fast, my dear lad. These were Nosler seconds so definitely not weight sorted. Good brass yes; weight sorted no.
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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11395 Location: Ava, Missouri
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fnuser Super Member
Joined: Dec 23, 2008 Posts: 914 Location: S.W. Missouri, U.S.A.
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: New brass........ |
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Nice try
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wiersy111 Super Member
Joined: May 13, 2009 Posts: 2376 Location: Central Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: New brass........ |
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Were still talking about how to treatnew brass. We had to clear up a couple things.
To size or not to size that is the question.
_________________ A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America " for an amount of "up to and including my life."
US ARMY RETIRED
The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson.
Being "Over the Hill" is much better then being under it! |
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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11395 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: New brass........ |
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Easy..."to size"...
_________________ I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...
DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote... |
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wiersy111 Super Member
Joined: May 13, 2009 Posts: 2376 Location: Central Minnesota
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