Botched Home Invasion by Police Turns Deadly For Marine.

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5946

Fact of the matter Galen, is that the news article is right, if there was a real reason that involved a serious offense, enough to have a no-knock warrant and peacefully arrest him, generally the whole investigation is sealed before the event to prevent the larger case from being made public.

In this case, it was a normal warrant, that did not require sealing, till days after when people started to ask "why" which is what makes anything the police say as suspicious. Seals to warrants and the like happen when they are first created when there is a deemed risk that someone may blow a investigation, not afterwards which smells like a cover up.

And considering the guy, who was sleeping all day because he works grave yard shift was responding to people breaking into his own home, and had not per his military training even de-safetyed the rifle till he knew what he was about to shoot or not shoot, it is clear that he did not intend to shoot at first sight. Which means he probably was just trying to protect his family like his training in the USMC taught him to.

Dimitri

gelandangan

As I said, I wasn't there, and all I know of this matter are hearsay.

Anyhow, any warrant for a forceful entry are USUALLY reserved for serious crime,
in which the suspect may either run a way, fight back , take hostage, destroy evidence etc.
The element of surprise is so that the suspect could be apprehended fast, before anyone is injured.

I do not know the background of the story intimately enough to pass judgments.
Let the jury convict or acquit, THEN read the transcript of the proceeding, and THEN form firm opinion.

In any case, I do not believe we have the whole truth from a page of NEWS report.
Reading from the news report, it seems that the writer is a person who has been hounding police faults for a few years.
Who can say that the report is all unbiased truth?

Anyone would agree that news persons tends to exaggerate, sadly, news are no longer facts.

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5946

Not just that article though Geland, the fact the police originally lied about him shooting first, then admitting the gun still even had the safety on, while in the mean time securing the ability to seal all police files to prevent further investigation by non-police smells fishy don't you think?

It something you'd expect in Syria or something not a "free country" which is why so many Americans including our membership here are upset about the situation.

Dimitri

gelandangan

Dimitri, I think the reason so many Americans and members of this here forum got upset from the situation is because
of the perceived summary execution of an ex marine that is presumed to be innocent.

If you change the "ex marine" to "Bubba drug dealer", there would not be as much an uproar.

Yes the police may change their statements, "lied"? maybe not, couldn't say from the single sided evidence presented.
I have been expert witness to court cases, where the "victim" change their minds to increase their compensation figures,
or techs that conveniently forgot some important key issues.

Police are human too, and say what you like, the first human instinct for any blame-able incident is to deny responsibility.
That maybe what they did..

Securing evidence and files are often necessary if there is connection to a larger scale investigations, as what I believe is happening in this case, as evidenced by the fact that there are a lot of related raids happening at the same time.

Yes it is not something you expect in free country, but there is always price for anything "Free".

I am sorry, I am not a political person and I do not wish to draw long discussion like this.
I just want to point out that HEARSAY is not facts, especially if you heard it from a biased point of view.

Suzanne

The temperature was 93* that day too. Wearing black and armor and all that swat gear musta been fun in 4 other raids that same day. Probably filled out the paperwork after a few cold beverages! Ex-military guys and gals can be criminals too. When I was in the service there were quite a few people better suited to be biker thug types than boatswain mates. The Huffington Post is on their best behavior too, as their conclusion states;

The government of Pima County has killed one of its own citizens. This is the most serious, solemn, and severe action a local government can undertake. It demands complete transparency. The Pima County Sheriff's Department and other agencies involved in the raid ought to be doing anything and everything to make themselves accountable. Instead, they've shown arrogance, defiance, and obstinacy -- all wrapped in an appeal to public safety.

Ya think there's a little bias there? They took one side and ran with it.

Suz

Pumpkinslinger

This is a terrible event and sure makes the police look bad. A thorough investigation must be done. However, I'm with Gelan, we just don't know all the facts yet. One thing I've learned from observing the anti-gun crowd is to NOT go off half cocked using partial information. How many times in the past have we seen stories about heartbroken parents searching for their missing child only to discover later that the parents murdered the child. The media will always jump on some story line and run with it, regardless of the truth.

Ominivision1

Just an update as police did release some 500 pages of documents relating to the raid. It appears that this raid was 1 of 4 houses raided that morning that were all connected to the marine that was killed. Here is the LINK.

Like Geland said, we don't know all the facts and I think an independent investigation should be done.

Elvis

woo hoo now the documents are out there I look forward to hearing the final conclusions.

Elvis

any update on this guys???

Ominivision1

The papers are still sealed and they are doing an internal investigation supposedly. The wife of the Marine that was killed has hired a lawyer.

radar

Well from a Police point of view even I think theres gotta be an independant investigation. What a balls up.
If I have to call our Armed offenders Squad AOS (SWAT) out I have to have a full appreciation and brief for their boss before they are even deployed. That includes a tactical appreciation and Threat assessment.
Even if we get caught on a job requiring an armed response I still have to make sure the guys and gals have done the appropriate appreciations etc.
In NZ we have a number of warrants that don't require physical warrant papers under the Arms Act, Crimes Act and Misuse of Drugs Act BUT they all have to be reported via national guidelines. If you cock it up any evidence found can be thrown out at court but I haven't had to swallow that sandwich yet.
But there's something bloody good about kicking someones door in in the wee small hours, or even sneaking in and grabbing them in the sack at gunpoint.

Ominivision1

radar wrote:

But there's something bloody good about kicking someones door in in the wee small hours, or even sneaking in and grabbing them in the sack at gunpoint.

It can turn ugly for both the homeowners and leo's. This is why I am so adamantly against raids on someones house, granted there may be a few circumstances where it might be needed but for the most, I say a simple knock on the door is usually the best course of action. They could have done that last month with this RAID