wildswalker wrote:

What's your load density with H4831SC..? According to the charts I have on hand H4831 is a few bumps slower that RL19. None list the short cut version, but I'll assume its close and still slower than RL 19. I like 85 to 90% load density.

Bushy and wildswalker.....I would have thought that in the Hogdon range of powders that Varget, or AR2208 when manufactured here in Australia, would be a better choice for the bullet weights you are using. Don't think it would necessarily give the 85% to 90% load density that you like though.

Just a little food for thought.

Cheers, Vince

Bushmaster.......

Most of my game has been taken with a bow...within bow range. Might have killed a handful of exceptional critters with a handgun as well.

So what's yer point?

First I querried about others that can/do find/found swap loads for centerfire rifles to up their down range trigger trippin' less a small fortune spent on componentry...for the sake of "shoot more, be more bettah".......as a MARKSMAN.

Then I defend that stance 'cause it was implied that I don't know my rifle even though I plainly stated I was shooting MORE......which in my reality equates to intimate knowledge thus high familiarity. I can only wonder who here of the paper hat sportin' recreational hunters actually can recite from memory a ballistic drop chart per the Rifle/Load they choose to laude.

Now it's a long range hunting ethics lesson in the reloading forum.........

If you consider 200 yards long range mebbe you need to get out of that armchair and into the Outdoors a little more. I can't help it...I live there.

200 yards is where my .50 cal Ruger 77 muzzleloader shines......

I shoot at Big Game a total of three months out of the year, CF Rifle hunting is all but mebbe two of that.

Honing my Rifle Skills is of high importance to me and for the life of me can't fathom those "hunters" who knowingly and willingly impose limits on themselves which are of absolute non necessity. I don't play golf but it seems to me that would be akin to taking only one or two clubs to a game.........dontcha need a bag full of tricks to be at the top?

I shoot year round at a lotta stuff and can't know if that's hurting my game or not, seems like it wouldn't, but then again I don't wait for opening day eve to sharpen my knife either.........................

I've only got one foot on that nerve....BTW.

Vince....

Varget sucks........

GroovyJack wrote:

If ya wanna take long shots , thats your right I suppose .. I'm against it for several reasons .. One is the critter deserves as humane a harvest as is feasible .. Two and three are good friends who were mistaken for (1) a moose and (2) a 'boo , at over 500 yards .. Both are pushing daisies .. If you can make the shot , go for it , jus be sure of your target ..

Groovy...

Seems you missed the referal to the particular hunting bullet of my choice, it's inherant attributes include among others things, an exceptional ability to kill very well.....

Which is why I choose it.

I routinely use glass to find quarry, judge the shootability of such and determine the safety of a shot. All covered I believe, in the most basic of hunter ed instruction, first and foremost putting dirt behind the target...not another hunter. Sorry about your friends, but Moose and 'Boo are pretty large even in a Dinkishly small state, and at 500 yards.

Your Pards musta been big fellers...........

I thought I felt a bit more pressure on that nerve...

Nope didnt miss your point at all , and nor was I referring to you in particular on your skills or abilities ..

But you know yourself people are mistaken for critters even in much closer ..

Like I said if you can make the shot safely go for it .. I have spent a lifetime with extended range shooting myself , so I am very familiar with the skill required to execute a long shot .. Not knocking you or your choice ..

Jus' puttin' in my observations , same as you .. I limit myself after a disaster two months ago , ( where I lost my home and all my firearms ) to only two centerfire rifles , a Marlin 336 30-30 small bore and a 458 Lott , neither of which are extreme range rifles .. I had some high dollar long range rigs that can never be replaced , but even before the loss I put a limit on my HUNTING shots ..

Nothing to be uptight about , we all are different and have different experience levels , and we're all jus puttin' in our two cents ..

wildswalker wrote:

Vince.... Varget sucks........

I was with ya up till this one....

I happen to have many uses for it, (outside of paradise), I guess once you get there (paradise), you can judge other peoples stuff.....

Paradisians Stuff is Better.........

I dayum sure ain't in Ohio.............

Varget is a might fast for most chamberings I drive, thus my avoidance, the smallest being .243 win, which RL 15 more than fills the bill.

There's oodles of offerings more suited for anything Varget might be used for IMHO..........4064 comes to mind.

I'm not a non fan of Hodgdon.....just don't like Varget.

Groovy....

I don't have the mainstream high dollar "long range rigs" you speak of....nor do I pursue things to that end.

I've simple hunting rifles that sport a good action, a fine trigger, excellent optics...and a good load designed to go to task.

I'm not the one seeking 1000 yard kills, nor do I hunt an 800 yard bean field. I'd not be caught dead totin' a fat stocked Sendero scoped with the latest mega optics.

But, if the task at hand is putting down an animal at a touch over the accepted norm (200 yards per this tread), then I'll do it.....and lose little sleep over it.

.243 is the round I'm working on, and Varget has been the most accurate powder I've used for it... so far.

43 grn Varget
55 grn Nosler Ballistic Tip
Winchester LR primer
Winchester (new) brass
2.650 OAL
Comparator OAL 2.197
10 Rounds .776 group average (100 rounds fired in 10 round groups)


I fired one ten round group this afternoon just over 1/2 " (.519)
From a factory Remington Model 700 ADL
Varget is working for me!!

Varget, or AR2208, is a damn good powder....used in the appropriate cartridge.

I use it to load .243 WIN and 30.30 WIN. RL 15 is a tad slower than Varget but is quite expensive here in Australia.

Following is the blurb from the manufacturer of ADI Powders of which some are marketed in the US under the banner of Hogdon.

AR2208 or Varget
A useful fine grained medium/slow burning rifle powder for medium sized
cartridges such as .308 Winchester and 25-06. Its burning rate is close to that of IMR 4064 but its bulk density is higher.
TYPICAL LOAD: 30-30 Winchester with 150 grain jacketed projectile
CHARGE WEIGHT 34.5 grains
VELOCITY 2,349 ft/sec

AR2213SC (H4831SC)
A slow burning rate rifle powder for cartridges such as .270 Winchester and
300 Winchester Magnum.
ADI produces AR2213SC for the North American reloading market and is in regular production.
TYPICAL LOAD: 300 Winchester Magnum with 165 grain jacketed projectile
CHARGE WEIGHT 75.5 grains
VELOCITY 3,055 ft/sec

Not sure if the following powder is marketed in the US but you will note its recommended use from the manufacturer.

AR2209 (Not sure if this is marketed in the USA as a Hogdon Powder)
A useful fine grained, moderately slow burning rifle powder for cartridges
such as 22-250, .243 Winchester, .270 Winchester, 30-06 and 300 Winchester Magnum. Its burning rate is close to that of IMR 4350 but its bulk density is a little higher and its metering through a powder loader is better.
TYPICAL LOAD: 30-06 Springfield with 165 grain jacketed projectile
CHARGE WEIGHT 59 grains
VELOCITY 2,835 ft/sec

Oh well, I accept everything your have said wildswalker.....there is a lot of good hunter/shooter commonsense in it. I intend to have a look at a swap load in the future, but right at this time, what I have suits my needs.

Cheers, Vince

wildswalker wrote:

I dayum sure ain't in Ohio.............

I'm dayum glad yer not too...

My reloaded hunting loads are also my target shooting loads for all my rifles. As for Varget, it works "great" in some calibers.

Bushmaster wrote:

Huh!! Most of my game have been taken with a 1948 Winchester Mod 94 .30 WCF (including one at 4 yards [12 feet]). I'm a tracker and still hunter...Longest shot with the .30-06 was 120 yards. If you can't get close to what you plan to shoot you need to go to "Trackers School of Stealth"...

Thank you sir, for that brief promo... classes begin late August. Contact me for class schedules and fees,

You are most welcome Tracker....Anything to aid and abet the cause...