HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: patrad69
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13133

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 140
BOT: 1
Total: 141
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Forums
03: Photo Albums
04: Forums
05: Home
06: Home
07: Home
08: Forums
09: Home
10: Home
11: Home
12: Home
13: Forums
14: Photo Albums
15: Home
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Home
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Photo Albums
26: Forums
27: Home
28: Forums
29: Your Account
30: Home
31: Home
32: Home
33: Photo Albums
34: Home
35: Home
36: Home
37: Home
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Home
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Your Account
61: Home
62: Forums
63: Photo Albums
64: Forums
65: Home
66: Forums
67: Home
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Home
72: Forums
73: Home
74: Photo Albums
75: Home
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Home
80: Home
81: Forums
82: Home
83: Home
84: Forums
85: Home
86: Home
87: Home
88: Forums
89: Home
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Photo Albums
93: Forums
94: Your Account
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Photo Albums
98: Forums
99: Photo Albums
100: Forums
101: Home
102: Home
103: Home
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Home
109: Home
110: Home
111: Photo Albums
112: Forums
113: Home
114: Home
115: Photo Albums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Home
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Home
122: Home
123: Forums
124: Photo Albums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Home
134: Forums
135: Home
136: Forums
137: Home
138: Your Account
139: Home
140: Home
  BOT:
01: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2455
  · Views: 824588
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 85
 

Gun vs reload
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

Very interesting, I've read about this before and here's an article from Jim Carmichael from Outdoor Life about this.

Outdoor Life

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 6403
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

PaulS wrote:
Bullet upset, whether it is expansion or tipping, causes damage (cutting and tearing) to tissue than any amount of "hydrostatic shock".

Now THAT I agree with.

I cannot see the need of extra foot pound of energy provided by hyper velocity calibers.

IMO, the need for faster MV are due to such as
1. inability to sneak closer to target
2. inability to guess distance to compensate trajectory
3. need to deliver higher force to "larger" targets (such as bear, elephant, T-Rex etc) for lighter projectiles to penetrate deeper into vital areas.
4. need to ensure"safety" of the hunter from targets that can bite back or attack the hunter by distancing the hunter from the target.

Animals do not get stronger (or pets get weaker) over the last hundred or so year.
The energy required to kill a deer would be the same today as what it was 500 years ago.
The main difference is the ability of the hunter to cause correct sized wound in correct area.

With the increase of hunting activity coupled with the reduction in habitat,
animal changes their habit and increase their awareness to predators (hunters).
Now, most "hunters" nowadays are like you and ME,
we are mostly paper/box/number pusher 99% of our lives, and for the rest 1% we "hunt"
Add the two factors together, you would have animals that are very shy and run at the slightest disturbance
and hunters that are too clumsy to approach close enough to guarantee humane kill.
And do not forget that us human ARE getting physically weaker through the generations due to lack of exercise, overweight etc.

So the solution?
use higher power caliber with flatter trajectory and massive energy delivery so the "hunter" can kill at longer distance.

I read a lot of stories telling so and so's granpa or old acquaintance
or the guy next door's third cousins father in-laws lawyer's uncle was a hunter/trapper,
that have only used a rusty single shot 22 magnum rifle and with that he provides
skin, meat and university/college admittance fees for his 6 children and a mother in-law.

Our ancestors really left large shoes to fill..

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

I've been around conversations that have eluded to the scientific studies that supposedly been done but no one seems to be able to give any reference material to their findings.

I would have to think that there's more to it than timing the heart beat....... I've had to high of a percentage of bang flop DRT's.
I do however believe in the basis of the theory !!!

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 5004
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

Energy is the ability to do work and is a very real factor in cartridge performance but you've got to compare apples (read bullets) to apples. If I take the exact same bullet and load it in a .308 and a .300 Win Mag which one would be more effective on game (assuming that all other variables are the same)? The only difference is the energy. For our purposes energy is used four ways: to create noise, to create heat, to deform the bullet and to make a hole in the critter. Rinker explains it well on page 340 of "Understanding Firearm Ballistics".

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2440
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:53 am    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

but there's a big difference between the energy in the bullet and the energy transfered to the animal. When the bullet doesn't deform on impact, it's very well likely that the slower bullet will transfer more energy to the animal than the faster. When I think about my airgun in my youth, that Diane Model 25 (=very small) would kill a sparrow each time on the spot. When I lather used the much stronger Diane Model 45, the same pellets didn't have the same effect. I simply shot trough the bird and it flew away...
Just give a 6 mm bullet in a .243 the same energy on f.e. 100 yards as a soft lead .45 round ball (or conical) in a muzzle loader. Now shoot a deer in the chest at this distance, which bullet would most likely kill the animal on the spot?

In other words: when you compare a small chinese who likes to work with a large, strong african man who likes to sit and think before his hut. Now compare potential energy with the work done at the end of the day...
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8316
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

OV1, thanks for posting that very intersting article. I think it is a plausible explaination and makes a lot of sense.

"Predictably, some of the buffalo dropped where they were shot and some didn't, even though all received near-identical hits in the vital heart-lung area. When the brains of all the buffalo were removed, the researchers discovered that those that had been knocked down instantly had suffered massive rupturing of blood vessels in the brain. The brains of animals that hadn't fallen instantly showed no such damage. So what is the connection?

Their conclusion was that the bullets that killed instantly had struck just at the moment of the animal's heartbeat! The arteries to the brain, already carrying a full surge of blood pressure, received a mega-dose of additional pressure from the bullet's impact, thus creating a blood pressure overload and rupturing the vessels."

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun vs reload Reply with quote

Pumpkin, I think I got a copy of that book............yup.... got it !!! Very Happy (I'll have to re-read that part)

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 4 of 4
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.